Thanks for the post. This question may not relate to the thread, but Would you rather use a 5d2 or AF100?
Also, thanks for suggesting the T2i with fast primes..
Feature Length Narrative: HMC150 vs 7D?
- Thread starter haperez
- Start date
Thanks for the post. This question may not relate to the thread, but Would you rather use a 5d2 or AF100?
Also, thanks for suggesting the T2i with fast primes..
Michael Carter
Veteran
So much of this has to do with which tool you feel 2nd nature with. I own both the 150 and DSLR (Canon) and have a great lens choice at hand, and with each I'm getting comfy with "which cam for which style". But for emotional impact, narrative-look style, I'd grab the Canon every time. And I do find the style of shooting DSLR (with rails, FF & matte box) is pretty dang groovy - to me it just "feels" more like an artistic tool than a technical frame-acquisition device. For an event, it's the 150 - which, even with how difficult focus can be on the move, I've gotten pretty confident with. (and I'm really ready to try the 150 with an FF - just liking that method better.)
It's just massively easier for me to get exactly what I'm picturing in my mind with the DSLR - DOF, lens choice, and how much easier lighting seems to be - make it more of a controlled-situation go-to machine for me. DOF is just huge for isolating a subject - guess it's time to seriously look at the AF100... or whatever the fall/winter may bring along.
It's just massively easier for me to get exactly what I'm picturing in my mind with the DSLR - DOF, lens choice, and how much easier lighting seems to be - make it more of a controlled-situation go-to machine for me. DOF is just huge for isolating a subject - guess it's time to seriously look at the AF100... or whatever the fall/winter may bring along.
I have been looking several adapters for the HMC150 on ebay such as the letus ultimate and Redrock M2, and prices vary from $600 to $1000 + some lenses adding to $1500. On the other hand, it was suggested to get a t2i/t31 for almost the same price?
Should I be better positioned with the adapter or use hmc150 with t2i/t3i combination?
Should I be better positioned with the adapter or use hmc150 with t2i/t3i combination?
If you're not an experienced camera guy, then starting from scratch with an HMC150 may not be a wonderful idea, and an adapter with lenses adds to the learning curve, etc. -- so, yeah, do the T2i option.
You'd be smart to get two T2i cameras -- so you can have two cameras running instead of just one -- it makes all the difference in the world.
There's a ton of training material out there on using Canon HDSLR cameras for video production -- invest in one or two or three.
Focus on buying new or used "prime" lenses (that means they don't "zoom") -- never buy a "kit lens." The cheapest prime lens on the planet is the "nifty fifty," the Canon 50mm f/1.8. Treat it gently, it's plastic, but optically it delivers. Buy two, one for each T2i.
For audio you want a Zoom H4n recorder. For mics (shotgun and/or lav mics, depending on your goals) go with Audio-Technica mics that deliver top notch quality at bargain prices.
Again, learning is the key. With the above, a great script, and Premiere Pro/After Effects CS5.5 -- almost anything could be produced by people with the knowledge and understanding. But don't expect amazing results after you open the boxes. You need to learn, practice, and run tests until you're sick.
You'd be smart to get two T2i cameras -- so you can have two cameras running instead of just one -- it makes all the difference in the world.
There's a ton of training material out there on using Canon HDSLR cameras for video production -- invest in one or two or three.
Focus on buying new or used "prime" lenses (that means they don't "zoom") -- never buy a "kit lens." The cheapest prime lens on the planet is the "nifty fifty," the Canon 50mm f/1.8. Treat it gently, it's plastic, but optically it delivers. Buy two, one for each T2i.
For audio you want a Zoom H4n recorder. For mics (shotgun and/or lav mics, depending on your goals) go with Audio-Technica mics that deliver top notch quality at bargain prices.
Again, learning is the key. With the above, a great script, and Premiere Pro/After Effects CS5.5 -- almost anything could be produced by people with the knowledge and understanding. But don't expect amazing results after you open the boxes. You need to learn, practice, and run tests until you're sick.
Michael Carter
Veteran
AG makes some good points, though I'll contest the above statement - especially if you're buying the camera to stick old primes on (classic Nikkor glass on the Canon is a cheap and wonderful way to go...).
I generally get the kit lens with any DSLR body purchase. With, say, a T2i, it gives you a fully auto-capable, AF and Image Stabilized lens for a hundred bucks. If nothing else, that's really handy of for some reason you need to get a quick still (and I just wrote my sixth invoice for "hey, can you grab some stills as long as we're doing video?").
The neighbor's cat got in the house and took out my tripod with my D90 on it - thing won't focus anymore, at all. I'm a Nikon guy but having an AF lens for my T2i has been a lifesaver as I decide whether to repair the D90 or get a 7000.
I've tested Nikon and Canon kit lenses against my really pricey newer glass and mojo-filled vintage glass, and they hold up quite well. I just delivered a 6' standup of an NFL player we shot during an interview, shot Raw with the kit lens. Looks great considering the T2i's image is about 12x18@ 300dpi. Kit glass don't have rockin' build quality or 2.8 apertures, but they're still a steal for $100. The Canon kit zoom is plenty sharp around 5.6, and has minimal fringing unless you have some really pinging highlights. (I use old Nikkors for video, I like having the aperture ring - and the 85 1.8 is a beauty monster...)
And what I find to be of greatest importance - selling your older body on eBay or Craig's list? Sell it as a complete setup with the kit lens (and keep all the packaging and manuals) and you'll generally get pretty close to what you paid for 'em new - and far more $$ than trading in. I've sold everything from N90s/8008 to D70 and D80 on Ebay, and in every case, selling a ready-to-go outfit put me at the top of the bidding range - I roughly calculated the value of adding a Nikkor kit lens to my D80 sale as upping the final bid close to $200.
Justyn
Veteran
Why not shoot on the GH2. Get a couple of adapters and use some pawn shop/ yard sale glass. I've picked up 6 SLR lenses from a 1.4 up to a 3.8 all for about 150 bucks. Even my expensive lenses have been great steals. All 2.8 and below.. Then when you consider the voigtlander .95, it's a potent camera package for a feature....
Sell it all when you are done and you'll probably retain 80 percent of your investment.
Sell it all when you are done and you'll probably retain 80 percent of your investment.
Melvin Harris
Black Flag Member
+1 about the free with an adapter rental...
won't look like an AF100...
Just be careful about your glass... be picky, make sure it's clean and sharp with no haze or fungus.
I know it doesn't need to be said, but I'll say it anyway.
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I have both the HMC150 and 60D (which is similar to the 7D but records on SD cards instead of compact flash) so I figured I'd throw in my two cents. I find the HMC150 is better for any shots that have a lot of handheld camera movement or run-and-gun sort of situations as the rolling shutter on the DLSRs can be detrimental in some instances. The HMC is fantastic for acting like a broadcast camera when you fix the eye-piece to your face. It gives you a speed and functionality that can't be done with the DSLR without purchasing an eye-piece adapter, shoulder rig and a flexible lens. You can pack a lot on the SD cards that the HMC records on if you get a good 16 or 32gb one, however the resolution is not as high as the 7D which you will certain notice on the big screen.
I would use the DLSR for when you need that little something extra in terms of beauty. I find the lenses and sensor duo on DSLR's responds to light in a much more flattering and visually appealing way (sounds weird I know, but comparing the two cameras while filming a subject backlit by a sunset proved in favour of the DSLR). Controlled interview situations would be one example where the 7D on a tripod would blow the HMC out of the water visually. I use prime lenses (Canon 50mm f1.8 and Sigma 30mm f1.4) for just such occasions but that is by no means the only way to handle situations.
In closing, the run and gun ability of my HMC is something I can't do without in some situations (mainly some documentary stuff). However, when working under more controlled conditions (narrative work or interview situations) I'll only use the DSLR for what I perceive as higher resolution and more cinematic image appearance. Hope I helped a bit!
I would use the DLSR for when you need that little something extra in terms of beauty. I find the lenses and sensor duo on DSLR's responds to light in a much more flattering and visually appealing way (sounds weird I know, but comparing the two cameras while filming a subject backlit by a sunset proved in favour of the DSLR). Controlled interview situations would be one example where the 7D on a tripod would blow the HMC out of the water visually. I use prime lenses (Canon 50mm f1.8 and Sigma 30mm f1.4) for just such occasions but that is by no means the only way to handle situations.
In closing, the run and gun ability of my HMC is something I can't do without in some situations (mainly some documentary stuff). However, when working under more controlled conditions (narrative work or interview situations) I'll only use the DSLR for what I perceive as higher resolution and more cinematic image appearance. Hope I helped a bit!
I don't think that's right. The AF100 has a much larger sensor than the HMC and will function in low-light at whatever the lens' lowest f-stop is. The HMC with a lens adapter will be around 3-4 stops darker than anything coming out of the Af100, at least.
Depends on which adapter. The older ones lose a lot of light, the new ones, about a 1/2 to full stop. At least that's what I have been told.
Controlled lighting situations then a loss of light won't be a big deal. Can be pretty major if you are shooting with minimal lighting.
Controlled lighting situations then a loss of light won't be a big deal. Can be pretty major if you are shooting with minimal lighting.
An HMC150 with an adapter won't look like an AF100. The colors might be in the same universe if you matched scene files, but that's it.
Frankly, it's this confusion in the threads that follow post #25 that is why I recommended, if the OP is not an experienced camera guy, he go with an easier option -- so he can focus on his content and not lenses and noise reduction strategies.
A 35mm adapter creates a "faux" full frame sensor -- complete with full frame shallow depth of field. For example, on my Letus Ultimate with a fast prime, it's possible to have an interview person, seated at a reasonable distance, with their nose in focus and their eyes out of focus. It's the shallow focus of the 5D Mark 2 -- and it was these adapters that started the shallow focus craze long before the 5Dm2 hit store shelves.
The AF100 has a micro four thirds sensor -- half the size -- and you simply can't get the same shallow focus.
The 150/170/200A/200 have always been weak on resolution, and when combined with an adapter the problem is compounded. You need sharp, fast lenses and other strategies to compensate.
The AF100 can be sharp as hell.
Relative to pro cameras of six years ago, the 150/170/200A is good. Relative to DSLR cameras, they suck in low light. When used with an adapter -- lighting becomes a very, very top priority and can be a serious investment. With proper lighting, results can be impressive. Without proper lighting, it's a disaster.
The AF100 (or any Canon HDSLR) can film interviews in candle light (I did it with a 7D last month).
So, considering sensor size, resolution, and light requirements -- the 150 with an adapter will not look like an AF100.
Again, go back to the OP's question and then later follow up question -- and ask yourself, is this fellow really going to be better off getting started by jumping into the 150/adapter circus? Or, would a beginner be better off buying any of the three or six or ten HDSLR video production training series and learning basics on a setup with a vastly lower learning curve that doesn't require two thousand dollars in lighting?
What people using "Full Frame 35mm" DSLR's (36mm X 24mm same as 35mm still film) don't seem to realize is the frame size is larger than 35mm movie film (roughly 24mm x 18.5mm depending on format/ratio). Back when SLR's took pictures on film the film slid sideways through the camera, where as a movie camera it moves vertically, resulting in a much smaller frame size. So "Full Frame" DSLR should actually have a shallower DoF potential than 35mm film.
http://blog.abelcine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/35mmdigitalsensors_2011.jpg
http://blog.abelcine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/35mmdigitalsensors_2011.jpg
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I "don't seem to realize" how the size of 35mm motion picture film is relevant to this thread.
Yes, the 5Dm2 or 35mm lens adapter creates something closer to "VistaVision." And, producers like that for various reasons.
It puts into perspective the various frame sizes and thus relevant DoF when selecting between 7d vs AF100 vs HMC150 with lens adapter.
Since many people go with whatever gives them the shallowest DoF because they think that will be more 35mm film like then the comment about "Full Frame" still cameras is very relevant.