Feature film with 7D?

Lumiere

Lumiere

Well-known member
Merry x-mas to all of you,

i'm just about to accept a feature movie project as dp, it will be something between Paranormal activity and Ghost Hunters, a mixture of them.We decided to shoot with hvx but i also want to use a 7D or another weaker option 5D, but i'm really suspiciuos about the image from 7D on the cinema screen:(( As far as Philip blooms experience, it looked very well on cinema.
Hvx is ok, i've worked with it for cinema and i'm very satisfied. Does anyone experienced with 7D for a feature movie. Should i go with it?
 
I haven't heard of a full feature, but I know the 5D was used for a scene on the big screen in Notorious.

Forman has the distinction of having shot the first Canon 5D scene ever included in a theatrical feature film: Fox Searchlight’s Notorious (2009), a biopic on the life and death of rap star Notorious B.I.G. Otherwise filmed in Super 35 for release in a 2.40:1 aspect ratio, the film was in the final throes of editing when a last- minute request came to Forman to shoot a single nighttime shot of the lead actor entering a building. Forman had taken possession of his Canon 5D three days previously; nonetheless, the producers were thrilled with both the result and its low cost. No crew involved.
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http://digitalcontentproducer.com/hdhdv/depth/sign_times_0409/index1.html
 
I don't have any experience with it for a feature, but I shot a 10 minute short with it and as long as you get your monitoring options worked out, and you have a dedicated sound guy with his own recording equipment, I think it's the way to go. After shooting one thing with it, I'll never shoot on the HVX again.
 
You realize the camera's been out for less time than it usually takes to produce a feature, right? If you like the camera and know how to use it, it will work. Just be aware of its weaknesses and work around them. Unless you have an HVX and lens adapter, which I would take before an HDSLR.
 
Lumiere said:
Merry x-mas to all of you,

i'm just about to accept a feature movie project as dp, it will be something between Paranormal activity and Ghost Hunters, a mixture of them.We decided to shoot with hvx but i also want to use a 7D or another weaker option 5D, but i'm really suspiciuos about the image from 7D on the cinema screen:(( As far as Philip blooms experience, it looked very well on cinema.
Hvx is ok, i've worked with it for cinema and i'm very satisfied. Does anyone experienced with 7D for a feature movie. Should i go with it?
Click to expand...



A mix between paranormal actvity amd ghost hunters. Why would you use a 7D and not a real video camera since that's exactly what both productions use?

There's no focus pulling and you really won't be going handheld with 7D without proper stabilization so add that to the budget. Was the production alwas slated for separate sound? If not add that to the production and post budget as well.

That's just guessing by th description of your project without many more details but it looks like the 7D is not what you would shoot that with of you're going for the same style.
 
Honestly, I have seen so many examples of artifacts in my own experience of even shooting talking heads type situations that I really have begun to question the viability of big screen uses for any of these DSLR's. It looks great for your computer, but blowing up that image is likely to yield a host of headaches beyond what even a DVX100 produces. I am a big fan of these cameras but realistically I still think we are AT LEAST a generation away from true viability. I would favor consistency of look over all other criteria, because an audience is likely to get used to the compromises, but some of these issues might appear too glaring when matched with another camera and it's own inherent compromises as well.
 
There is a blog by an individual who shot a feature on the 7D (he claims the first) and is currently shooting a second.

http://7dcinema.blogspot.com/

And according to the Philip Bloom Skywalker Ranch experience, it seems that these DSLRs are perfectly acceptable when projected digitally onto a 40' screen.
 
"A mix between paranormal actvity amd ghost hunters. Why would you use a 7D and not a real video camera since that's exactly what both productions use?"

Ahh, come on Kholi...using the 7d for ANY kind of paranormal/ghost show will produce MANY more ghosts then either of those shows....All that aliasing and moire patterning:) you'll convince everyone that the joint is haunted:)

Seriously though...as long as you have BOTH the HVX and 7d, you'll be able to shoot a nice looking feature. As others have mentioned, there are weaknesses with the DSLR for shooting, but there are a LOT of strengths too...I haven't shot a feature (not even close, actually;)), but I do shoot a lot of material that we've blown up quite large...never printed to film, but digitally projected up to 120" (only 10', so hardly a fair comparison), we've been able to get some damn fine footage and cut between the two cameras (as well as the EX1 and 5d2). I think you're on the right track, as long as you bring the HVX with you~!

J
 
"I don't have any experience with it for a feature, but I shot a 10 minute short with it and as long as you get your monitoring options worked out, and you have a dedicated sound guy with his own recording equipment, I think it's the way to go. After shooting one thing with it, I'll never shoot on the HVX again."


I keep seeing this pop up and I'm still waiting for my 7D to arrive to test, but the color sampling, aliasing, weird wave when in hand held mode, over heating, etc... seems to be a major issue with these cams, not to mention it's compressed video.

I've tested some of this with only the D90, didn't work out to well. I know this is one of the first of the DSLR video cams out, but have read forum after forum about these issues. So I'm not sure it's safe to say this just yet. The HXV is a work horse and can take what you give it. We've had ours for about a year and love the quality it puts out, but wouldn't mind the higher resolution at 1080p.

Do you have any uncompressed work online to check out ?


.
 
I'm planning to give one of the hvx to one of the actors as a actor camera.I think i ll only use 7D for establishing shots and low light situations.It will not be definately one of the handheld camera..We already have a sound guys which will record externally.So no need to worry about the sound.I just need to find some L series primes:)

As long as i know cinema screen is just a few lines bigger than 1920x1080 it shoul be around 2048x? so thats why hvx has no problem on cinema.But i'm already not satisfied with 7D's actual size playback on my labtop.When you downsize it to sd for your dvd or tv then its ok.This is make me think twice about 7D..
 
I'm the guy who shot the world's first feature on 7D.

3 pieces of advice:

1. Use the latest firmware.
2. Turn off auto lighting optimizer.
3. Don't use canon lenses.

Here's a fourth piece of advice: shoot a lot of tests. Play your tests back on a digital projector using the camera+hdmi cable as source.

Test white balance and Picture Profiles EXTENSIVELY.

Use some sort of light diffusion of your choice. This will help with aliasing (which I personally haven't had trouble with)

1250 (but really 640 for the most discerning) is the highest iso I recommend using.

Talk to the people handling post to make sure they have a good understanding of workflow and colorspace of the camera in place.

Never shoot handheld without some sort of lateral stabilization. The camera length to focal plane ratio of this camera Will bone you for handheld without any support.

If you are lighting off the onboard LCD turn the brightness to a fixed level and go one notch below the midpoint. This is a fairly good approximation of a 2.2 gamma (in computer world)

learn to read the histogram of a quick 2 second test clip. The density will be radically different between a raw still and a video clip.

Watch your black levels.

Watch your highlights.

Consider trying a Sony ex series for something with a "video" look ;)

People won't want to hear this but the image quality of a 7D
CAN murder an hvx. In the right hands and if used correctly.

Consider renting a 1Dmkiv and a gang of zeiss lenses :).
 
Dan_Kanes said:
I'm the guy who shot the world's first feature on 7D.

3. Don't use canon lenses.
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Pardon?

Do tell. We've shot 4 music videos that are gaining airplay that were shot with Canon lenses and look absolutely fantastic, and we're about to fire up for a feature film. Why shouldn't I use Canon glass...?
 
What's the concern about big screen appearances? It's unrealistic that a low budget feature with no names or pre distro is gonna get beyond a nice HD television so why worry?

I also wonder why not Canon lenses?
 
Re:my preference for non-canon glass:

it's not a hard and fast rule, I just strongly prefer not to use canon glass.

Reasons:

1.electronically controlled iris with no iris ring sucks.
2.Zeiss and nearly all manual nikkors have much better mechanics for accurately pulling focus.
3. Lens communication to body can cause dropped frames, noise and other aberrations in video. My testing indicated that a canon 24-70mm f2.8 @2.8, 50mm had significantly more noise in shadows than a zeiss contax 50mm f1.4@ 2.8...

Not sure if I can chalk that up to a difference in t-stop, lens to body communication or something else.

Maybe I'm biased against them because I'm philosophically opposed to much of their design techniques and corporate BS in general.

I do love my 7D's though. Love them even more with some 'real' glass on the front LOL.
 
Dan_Kanes said:
3. Lens communication to body can cause dropped frames, noise and other aberrations in video. My testing indicated that a canon 24-70mm f2.8 @2.8, 50mm had significantly more noise in shadows than a zeiss contax 50mm f1.4@ 2.8...

Not sure if I can chalk that up to a difference in t-stop, lens to body communication or something else.
.
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This is one thing that I actually noticed myself. Glad I'm not the only one. Particiularly, the Zeiss ZE 85/1.4 and ZF 85/1.4 are the exact same lens. However, I noticed the image from the ZE for WHATEVER CRAZY REASON looked noisier in the darks.

Strange.
 
Two theories:

1. Lens specific debayering/processing algorithm?

2. Lens serial communication takes CPU cycles that otherwise smoothe things out video wise?

Was your nikon f to eos adapter the af-confirm type?
Mine are.

This is why I love canon and hate canon.

Hope next gen digic V slrs and/or rumored eos video cam start downscaling and debayering nicer for video.

Ps kholi - if you ever need an operator or tech hit me up:
info@dankanes.com
 
Very interesting indeed...somehow the electrical interaction between contacts causes amp spikes or something? Wonder if there's a way to test this
 
Box said:
you sound like a tool :engel017:
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Well, I'm just a man among my contemporaries.

In the blog age I've found that if I don't publicly take credit for my accomplishments then someone else will.

Fact: I shot the worlds first feature on the 5DII as well, but Internet hype would widely lead you to believe that Andrew Disney actually did. Nevermind that they had only finished a trailer by the time I had completely wrapped principal photography. As far as I can tell neither of our movies have been distributed yet, so who cares?

In conclusion, it may sound like a douchebag thing to say, but if Phil Bloom or Vincent Laforet came on here saying the same thing people would be clamoring all over themselves singing their praises.

It seems like if I want to get any sort of support from
Canon or any other manufacturer to beta test their products then I have to strive to get attention. Tim Smith has basically ignored my feedback on Canon's products and to me that just seems to be part of Canon's lackluster attitude towards people pushing boundaries with their products.

While people are fretting over whether it's possible or a good idea, I'm out there shooting and promoting these cams as one possible way to get the job
done beautifully. People are just starting to accept the 5DII and by the time the 24p firmware comes out it will already be way obsolete. That's a cold hard fact. Camera technology is now entering a sort of moore's law upgrade cycle. I'm only hopeful for what the near future may hold.
 
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