F5: F5 and Atomos Shogun Flame...the good, the bad, and the ugly

cuervo

cuervo

Veteran
I bought a Shogun Flame, primarily to use as an HDR monitor on my PMW-F5, with secondary use on my FS700. It's an excellent monitor, I love it for that use. But, I must say that Atomos' promotion of this device as "4K" is misleading. While it does well to capture 4K from the FS700 in RAW output mode, it stinks when it comes to capturing 4K on the F5. For one thing, it has a single 3G, 6G, 12G SDI input, but, the F5 has 2x (dual) 3G SDI ports for outputting 4K. I tried connecting by HDMI, but, the Flame refuses to recognize the 4K signal.

So, if anyone has a mind to use this with a Sony F5, and you want to record more than HD, forget it. The "4K" logo is pretty deceptive.
 
Probably right, yoclay.....too late, I already bought the Flame. Somewhat misled by the "4K" logo. Pretty sleazy, if you ask me. Their website shows the Flame supports the F5.
B that as it may, that's why I'm posting, here. Hopefully help others from falling into that trap.
 
Atomos won't tell me if Inferno will accept 4K input on HDMI. If it did, I would think they would answer in the affirmative.
 
This is the response I got from Atomos:

New Update:
Hello,

Yes, the Inferno will have HDMI 2.0 and that means it will support also higher frame rates in 4K like 50p and 60p.
Best wishes
Atomos Worldwide Technical Support
 
The Shogun Flame accepts UHD up to 30p both using the HDMI 1.4b or the SDI interface. See the technical specifications at atomos.com/flame/shogun. So the question is what output is delivered by HDMI from the F5.

For the FS7 I can tell you that the FS7 deliveres UHD 25p/30p 10bit 422 by HDMI, but UHD 50/60p with 8bit 420 only.

Maybe the flame does not accept the dual SDI input that you are looking for. I would send a ticket to Atomos.
 
Yeah, I sent a ticket to Atomos and they responded with some nonsense answer. I sent a second request two days ago, specifically about HDMI; and, they have, so far not responded. Honestly, I'm not very impressed. My guess is that they've probably never actually tested HDMI with the F5 and there are compatibility issues. I also asked if I could use an SDI muliplexer to multiplex the dual 3G SDI outputs from the F5 to a single 6G SDI signal to input to the Flame. Again, no reply....:(
 
Hmm, I think we should be more specific:
- is the HDMI signal recognized for HD? If so, which HD? 1080 50i/60i/25p/30p/50p/60p?
- is the HDMI signal recognized for UHD 25p/30?
- is it recognizd for UHD 50p/60p?

For the last one the answer seems to be "no" - due to your tests and the HDMI 1.4b interface? But what about the first two?
 
Wolfgang,
The only mode tested was DCI 23.976P. It works fine with my Odyssey 7Q Plus, so, I know there's a good signal out of the F5.
 
The unresponsiveness of Atomos was what ultimately made me bite the bullet and pay almost the double for the 7Q+ over the Shogun.
 
DCI 4K? But I think the Atomo units are specified for UHD resolution only via HDMI. The only interface where 4K DCI work is for Sony raw as far as I remember. So maybe that is he issue.
 
Atomos are a joke. They sell the same junk over and over. I feel sorry for the people who pre-orderd the Flame units. Sorry all Flame owners now we have new Inferno that does everything the Flame units should do and it costs way more than an O7Q. £1998.00 for a cheap plastic box with a built in rubber Armour, oh and it's black. I don't like the Atomos business strategy at all. I would demand my money back for false advertisement or I would make a review demonstrating how badly designed the new Atomos recorders are.

I'll stick with the Odyssey 7Q, it does everything I need and more.
 
Wolfgang....I believe you're right. HDMI 1.4b is UHD only. I need to go back and retry to connect at that resolution. Video input is DCI, HDMI input is UHd.
edit: yes, that was it. Changing output to UHD; and, the Flame now recognizes the signal. DOH!
Thanx, Wolfgang

Jack....I like my O7Q+, except:
1-I'm tired of hearing C-D promise to deliver on DNxHD/HR, but, not delivering. They've lost my loyalty as a customer over this issue. False advertising, again.
2-My original purpose for getting the (low cost) Flame, is to use it as a cheap HDR monitor. It works, and works well, for this purpose. The only other option is the Sony HDR monitor, which is $30K US.
 
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cuervo said:
Jack....I like my O7Q+, except:
1-I'm tired of hearing C-D promise to deliver on DNxHD/HR, but, not delivering. They've lost my loyalty as a customer over this issue. False advertising, again.
2-My original purpose for getting the (low cost) Flame, is to use it as a cheap HDR monitor. It works, and works well, for this purpose. The only other option is the Sony HDR monitor, which is well over $10K US.
Click to expand...

1. It will happen, you know it will. If I have faith in anyone on here it's in CD and Mitch Gross.
2. I'd sell the Flame and go for the Inferno unit. It should do everything you need it to do once it's released.
 
JackCarter said:
Atomos are a joke. They sell the same junk over and over. I feel sorry for the people who pre-orderd the Flame units. Sorry all Flame owners now we have new Inferno that does everything the Flame units should do and it costs way more than an O7Q. £1998.00 for a cheap plastic box with a built in rubber Armour, oh and it's black. I don't like the Atomos business strategy at all. I would demand my money back for false advertisement or I would make a review demonstrating how badly designed the new Atomos recorders are.

I'll stick with the Odyssey 7Q, it does everything I need and more.
Click to expand...
Funny. I came in my calculation to something about Euro 4000 for the 7Q+, together with two Samsung SSDs and the raw upgrade. I do not like the price stratgy really.

So if yo do not like that Atomos products - fine and up to you. But you tell here wrong things and that is not so fine. The specifiction states very clear that HDMI supports 2160p only. Sorry, but then to use DCI 4K will not work and for that you cannot blame the supplier.
 

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cuervo said:
Wolfgang....I believe you're right. HDMI 1.4b is UHD only. I need to go back and retry to connect at that resolution. Video input is DCI, HDMI input is UHd.
edit: yes, that was it. Changing output to UHD; and, the Flame now recognizes the signal. DOH!
Thanx, Wolfgang
Click to expand...
You are welcome!
 
wschmid said:
Funny. I came in my calculation to something about Euro 4000 for the 7Q+, together with two Samsung SSDs and the raw upgrade. I do not like the price stratgy really.
Click to expand...

In reality I purchased my O7Q with the RAW bundle for less than the Inferno's £1998.00 and it came with a free Convergent Design SSD. Don't include drives because you don't get any with Atomos recorders. Only the battery solution for the O7Q will perhaps up the price a little, depends on what way you want to power it.
 
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