F5: F5 and Atomos Shogun Flame...the good, the bad, and the ugly

No I have to include the drives because I have have to purchase new SSDs. I havehere two 1TB Sandisc SSDs that works with the Shogun but they cannot be used with the Q7+ any more (as far as I understood Mitch Samsung could be used). So it would be cashout for me.

And your have to include the raw bundle of convergen design too what is somthing near to $1000, to end up with compareable package. I ended up something near to € 4000 and that was too much.
 
O7Q from CVP cost me £1,400.00 with a free SSD.

RAW bundle from CD cost me £566.00 with the sale that was on during NAB.

Total £ 1,966.00

Perhaps not as cheap as I remember but it's still under the price of the Inferno and it's not just vaporware. Put it this way, the 7Q will let me record 120fps from the FS700 for 3.5 seconds. Not even my F5 can record 4K 120fps. Worth the price alone and did I mention the build quality, great customer service and future expandability of the 7Q?

As for drives you can get the Samsung 850 EVO 1TB for under £250 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-in...F8&qid=1470235670&sr=8-4&keywords=samsung+evo
 
I can only state it is much more expensive here. I had an offer for the Conergen Design Qdyssey 7Q+ about 1.850 Euro, plus 19% tax are 2.201 Euro. The raw bundle has now a summer sales with $595, but when I did my comparison it was $ 1000. And the SSDs cost from amazon.de € 297, so with two SSDs Euro 600 - so all together with a Fx of 1 about 3.400 Euro (without the summer sales 3.900 Euro). And that is what I wrote.

Incremental pricing for me for the Shogun Infern will be 2.200 Euro including tax, and since I can continue to use my existing two 1TB Sandisc SSDs that will not be more. Incemental pricing is a very valid approach here - since there would not be more cash out in my case.

So at the best 3.400 versus 2.200 Euro.
 
Whatever works for you. For me the O7Q is the best monitor recorder for the FS700 as it can do everything from the camera. I wish the Inferno was a 5'' version with all the HFR options from the FS700 because then I would be very tempted.
 
I asked Atomos this question point blank and all they did was direct me to a video on setting the FS7 for UHD. I told them I don't want to buy Inferno and then return it if it refuses 4k input.
 
Well, I have an O7Q+; and, I'll say this.....the display is REC709. The entire draw to the Flame is the 1500 nit display. Let me say that with both the FS700 and the F5 (NOT the FS5), the 1500 nits is the bomb! For the first time, ever, I can dial in my exposure in slog2 or slog3 and it's always right on. With an HDR display, what you see is what you get. Add to that, connecting my Flame up to my edit bay, next to my FSI CM17; and the differences between Rec709 and HDR are shockingly apparent. I am LOVING this display on the Flame!
 
How's the battery drain with that 1500 nit display? That is a minor secondary issue that concerned me, as the Shogun is already a hog on batteries.
 
I haven't used it enough, yet, to remark on the battery drain. My normal shooting brightness is around 300 nits, so, I haven't pushed it to 1500, yet. Atomos claims 1.5 hrs on a 5200 Amp-Hr battery, of which there are two, so 3 hrs, with a hot swap capability. I've been running with a D-tap to my big 90 W-Hr bricks.
 
What makes me upset about Atomos was the point, that they built in the first Shogun an HDMI 1.4b interface only. There is no way to record UHD 50p/60p with this unit. And they did that at a point in time when the advantage of HDMI 2 was clear. Convergent Design got that right at the very beginning. Even with the beta of the new firmware for the Shogun 1 CDNG can be recorded up to UHD 25/30p only. And worser, also the upcoming Shogun Inferno has specified CDNG 25/30p only. The 1200nits are fine and Convergent Design has nothing similar up to now. But all the other points are better.
 
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My biggest complaint with Atomos is lack of forthcomingness about specifics when I ask specific questions. They tell me it records 4K but they won't tell me if it can do it via HDMI.

I got burned with the Shogun because of this and by the time I discovered it was a hardware limitation, it was too late to return it to B&H.

If the Shogun recorded 4K out of the FS7, I'd be happy. Having 4K 60p would be fabulous, if it's true. I'm pretty sure my dual Xeon editing workstation will handle Prores at 60p. XAVC, not.
 
But those points can be read in the Atomos specifications. Their recorder will record UHD, only with raw up to DCI 4K. It can be recorded using HDMI e.g. with the Shogun 1 (up to 30p) or with the Shogun Inferno up to UHD 50p/60p.

But take care, they will not tell you that the FS7 delivers 10bit 422 up to UHD 30p only if you use HDMI (for UHD 50p/60p 8bit 420 only). So to record ProRes with the Shogun 1 with up to UHD 30p you can use hdmi without risk, but the mlut in the FS7 will not work in the EI mode as far as I remember. You have to use the preview LUT in the recorder.

A maybe better way could be to use the extension XDCA unit and convert Sony 12 bit linear raw (or 11bit) to 10bit 422 ProRes with the Shogun 1 here now up to DCI 4K 30p. I have not tested that up to now. Only with the Shogun Inferno and the XDCA you will be able to get ProRes DCI 4K up to 60p.

Most of that can be found in the specifications of the Atomos units (the FS7 limitation is not documented I think. That was a message from Sony).
 
I recall reading somewhere that the FS7's HDMI port was HDMI 2.0, thus capable of 4K 60P. But I can't find that source and it's not in the manual.

True, unless I output 1080P on the HDMI, the MLUTs are disabled. Makes working with it a bit tricky, unless you're tripod mounted and can look at the Shogun screen with its own LUT.

But the Shogun specs are vague and omit a lot of details about the HDMI.
 
You will not find an an statement that the FS7 has HDMI 2.0 as far as I know. But people state that from time to time (here for example also Mitch stated that). I think the surprise was that beside that the FS7 seems to output 10bit 422 by HDMI up to UHD 30p only, but 8bit 420 for UHD 50p/60p. That came up from a conversation with Sony Germany where they informed a friend of mine about that. And that was not specified in the FS7 manual at all!

But for the Atomos units you find the specs - and if you can read them you will know what you have asked.
 

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News Shooter had this article where they said:

[FONT=&quot]The camera has dual SDI outputs and HDMI 2.0.


[/FONT]http://www.newsshooter.com/2014/09/12/sony-pxw-fs7-4k-super35-camera-the-best-of-all-worlds/

Beyond that, I have no idea.
 
No, and no one seems to know. I can set up the HDMI output for 4K when the camera is set to 60P, so no lockout in the menus. HDMI 2.0 is capable of 18gb/s and 4K 60P at 10 bits is within that capability. Whether Sony crippled the port or not, is unknown.
 
Unless I see the source, everything is just hearsay.

If I could borrow a monitor that handled more than 24P on HDMI in, I could test this for myself.
 
TheTrickster said:
This is the response I got from Atomos:

New Update:
Hello,

Yes, the Inferno will have HDMI 2.0 and that means it will support also higher frame rates in 4K like 50p and 60p.
Best wishes
Atomos Worldwide Technical Support
Click to expand...


This can be a red herring, because Atomos asserts that UHD *is* 4K and since their units support UHD to 30p, by their whacky reasoning, they get away with claiming they support 4K on HDMI. They lied to me about this on the Shogun, and again on the Flame. So I am not accepting their claims until I see it demonstrated.
 
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