F3 or used Red One MX: pros and cons?

Worth keeping in mind that the F3 has a zoom rocker and will soon (?) launch lenses that will make use of this feature. For run and gun, this could be a real plus point.
 
Admir said:
The red is more of a cinemastyle camera, not a run n gun camera as much as the F3. Also, a big deal would be that the Red has no built in ND filters, that adds extra hussle to have a mattebox and switching ND filters while running around and trying not to get them dirty. The F3 have really sweet internal ND filters that you easily switch on and off.

Sure the Red beats the F3 with the 5k image and a lot more space for CC in post, but I don't think that it would be the right thing for you and I doubt that the Red would give you that more and the end of the day when doing spontanious run n gun.
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Admir just to clarify, RED does not have more color space than the F3 with SLOG - they are the same.

Sergio, the F3 honestly gives you the best of both worlds ie. run'n gun/ENG camera, and cinema style capable. If you plan on doing any news stuff you can easily copy your files and give to the station, try giving them some RED files. You will likely always have to convert it for them and since its RAW and not color corrected you will have to CC as well. If you shoot hours and hours on a doc, I don't think you need resolution or color space benefits or SLOG/RAW and you will probably appreciate smaller file size. If you need to shoot cinema-style where you know grading will be required you have the option of 422 over SDI or 444 with SLOG upgrade.

That makes the F3 more versatile and flexible in my book, and the accessories for it are cheap reasonabley speaking. ($100 U60 batteries in China!). Oh not to mention the zooms stockfuel mentioned...... does it get any better then that just?
 
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Star central, i think you mean dynamic range instead of color space. Color space is a completely different thing. ;)
 
Oops I didn't mean color space...

Anyway how does the RED have more space in post for CC if the F3 with SLOG has more dynamic range than the RED?
 
The two are different thing.

Dynamc range is the maximum brightnes, to minimum brightness that a camera can display. The alexa is #1 with 14.5 stops,the f3 is #2 with 13.5 stops, and the red epic is #3 with 12.5( i dont count hdrx as its a compromised post effect, im talking REAL dynamic range)
 
Yes I know color space and dynamic range are two different things, my point is I don't agree with Admir that the RED One has more space than the F3 w. SLOG to work with in post.
 
starcentral said:
Yes I know color space and dynamic range are two different things, my point is I don't agree with Admir that the RED One has more space than the F3 w. SLOG to work with in post.
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You have more room because the codec Is just so much better. And the extra resolution also helps when doing secondaries.
 
hi,
another thing:
shot a bicycle race with the f3 run'n'gun... always going out if bag, back in bag, out of bag with almost no setup time...boot times as ex-1... not possible with the RED boot times...
 
macgregor said:
You have more room because the codec Is just so much better. And the extra resolution also helps when doing secondaries.
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I'm not sure I agree that it is "so much better".... 10bit / 4:4:4 / s-log is just as robust as REDraw. The only significant issue is being able to set white balance in post, which is cool, but not needed if you shoot right to begin with.
 
Hmmm... that's an interesting question....



Redcode 36 vs uncompressed 444.... wich will grade more efficiently.

That said, the new recode 3:1 compression in the epic will probably beat out the 444 uncompressed, cause the volume of informaion. However, the filesizes are REDICULOUS.....
 
Sorry guys, the f3 does not record uncompressed 10bit 444.
If you want that you need to spend some seroius money as we all know, and that seems to be out of the question in the original post. Besides i have some doubts about the f3 really achieving 444.

So i am referring to the xdcam codec. Yep 8bit 1080p mpeg 420 vs 4K 12bit redraw...
 
macgregor said:
Sorry guys, the f3 does not record uncompressed 10bit 444.
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The original post mentioned an S-log F3.

I'm pretty sure I read a post by Barry Green regarding REDcode not coming close to 4:4:4, maybe i'm mistaken. Please note, I love REDcode, I just think people overrate RAW as the be all, end all format.

Even S-log / 4:2:2 / 10bit would grade very aggressively.
 
Stockfuel, 100% agreed.

How many people who shoot RED (or SLOG for that matter) are truly planning to go to post so they can push an image around by 2 or more stops? Not saying it isn't "real life" or not likely to happen, but I do believe it is the rarest of scenarios and certainly not something a DOP would aim to do on a regular basis.

For basic color correction and subtle mask/grading 422 is plenty, even 420. 10-bit is king.
 
stockfuel said:
The original post mentioned an S-log F3.

I'm pretty sure I read a post by Barry Green regarding REDcode not coming close to 4:4:4, maybe i'm mistaken. Please note, I love REDcode, I just think people overrate RAW as the be all, end all format.

Even S-log / 4:2:2 / 10bit would grade very aggressively.
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Sure but slog does not mean uncompressed 444. You can record slog as mpeg internally and there is no mention about spending 6-7k in an external recorder.
 
Duke M. said:
That's the statement I questioned. How is the Red leaps and bounds ahead of the F3 for an AC point of view?
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First off the ability to be built out with sturdier rails and the mounting options (the monitor can be put pretty much anywhere, as can the viewfinder, etc.

The menu system on the RED is much more refined (in my opinion)

Ergonomically speaking the RED is different and, again my opinion, better (if built out correctly)

The last F3 I worked with the top handle was so wobbly I was almost afraid to pick it up by it, let alone mount a monitor to it.

Also exposure tools and such.

I am by no means calling the F3 bad (compared to a DSLR it is a dream), but I personally enjoy working with the RED better

ALL EXCEPT:
there are two things that could be better:
1) boot time
2) the builds get heavy quick
 
Though after hearing some more about your intentions I think that the F3 may be a better fit. Doing things as a one-man-band on a RED is difficult (or so I would imagine, I haven't done that myself, haha). With the F3 you could throw on a nikon prime and be good to go under 6.5 lbs.
 
Memory and HD Storage is so low that filesize may not matter.....

1982 PC with 64KB memory and two floppy 320 K drives....$6200 USD.

Today....

Go for the best image possible....edit like a fiend and only save the best....

Bob
 
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