F3: F3 or F5

The F3 is really still terrific looking and you can pick one up for $4500 approximately. It will be around for a long time image-wise (trust me) and looks far better than most of the sub $8K cameras. It does need to be paired with an external recorder, but the Samurai Blade with a couple of 2.5" hard drives is really quite cheap - maybe $1200 (cheap media is one of it's advantages). You do need to shoot in SLOG (the free version is sufficient) and in 10bit. The issue is whether or not you need overcranking beyond 30p, 4K/RAW, internal recording and a really ergonomic shoulder mount situation. If so, the FS7 would be my bet today. Between $8-12K. Important: The F3 is better than the FS7 if you are shooting PL, it's FZ mount is very strong. It can easily be replaced by an inexpensive EF mount if you are shooting with stills lenses. With the FS7 you would need to buy an aftermarket rail mounted adapter and you are probably looking at around $800-$1000 for that.
 
Last edited:
F3 can also give you 1080p60 in 4:4:4 if you record out to something like an Odyssey 7Q. With the $500 rebate on the 7Q at the moment, it'd make a great cheap combo.
 
Grug said:
F3 can also give you 1080p60 in 4:4:4 if you record out to something like an Odyssey 7Q. With the $500 rebate on the 7Q at the moment, it'd make a great cheap combo.
Click to expand...

Don't you need the Sony paid SLOG upgrade for that?

Also the Odyssey is going to set you back about $2700 between the monitor and the cards. You are looking at betwwen $750-$1250 in proprietary media alone.
 
Last edited:
yoclay said:
Don't you need the Sony paid SLOG upgrade for that?

Also the Odyssey is going to set you back about $2700 between the monitor and the cards. You are looking at betwwen $750-$1250 in proprietary media alone.
Click to expand...

Only for an older F3, any sold in the last 18(?) months or so come with it included.

And even at $2700 the Odyssey is superb value - an onboard monitor of that quality along with the recording features it offers is a lot for the money. Though my point was more that I doubt the FS7 outputs RGB 4:4:4, where the F3 definitely can (with the upgrade).
 
I pulled the trigger on an F5. After playing around with it, for about a week, now, I must say I'm loving this cam. Stellar images, all with Canon glass. Hacked the ALL for 4k, amazing. I wonder what Sony will offer for $1k to do better than this free hack will do. Setting up scene files, experimenting with RAW capture. So, so much here, it will take me some time to fully learn the intricacies. Really wish someone would manufacture a FZ or PL to EOS Speedbooster. Very intrigued with the Optitek Optitron.

My FS700 seems so small and lite, next to the F5....LOL....but, the images are breathtaking, to me, anyway. And the F5 is so much easier to wrangle than the FS700+O7Q.
 
Congrats Cuervo, look into setting up some ALL FILES for yourself. You can have up to six available through the side-panel. I have mine set up for the following:

- SR444 normal
- SR444 cropped
- 2K XAVC normal
- 2K XAVC cropped
- 2K XAVC 180fps (switches camera from 25p to 24p timebase to allow maximum framerates)

You could use the sixth one for your 4K ALL FILE too.

With the ALL FILES properly setup, the only time I ever have to press the Menu button is to reformat SxS cards... that's it. Every other function I use becomes accessible from the side-panel, which makes the camera almost as easy to use as the Alexa IMO.
 
Congrats as well.

For $1k the 4K option will support playback, and maybe address what some have noted to be weird gammas with the ALL FILE 4K option some users have reported but not sure about the specifics on it.

No wires or external bits to deal with is priceless. I know there are still many huge F3 fans out there, but no external recorder is just pure AWESOME.
 
cuervo said:
I pulled the trigger on an F5. After playing around with it, for about a week, now, I must say I'm loving this cam. Stellar images, all with Canon glass. Hacked the ALL for 4k, amazing. I wonder what Sony will offer for $1k to do better than this free hack will do. Setting up scene files, experimenting with RAW capture. So, so much here, it will take me some time to fully learn the intricacies. Really wish someone would manufacture a FZ or PL to EOS Speedbooster. Very intrigued with the Optitek Optitron.

My FS700 seems so small and lite, next to the F5....LOL....but, the images are breathtaking, to me, anyway. And the F5 is so much easier to wrangle than the FS700+O7Q.
Click to expand...

Congratulations. The F5 is the best camera I have ever used. I shoot everything in 2k - slog 3 - matrix off and the images are images are amazing. Not fussed about what else Sony are bringing out - the F5 ticks all the boxes and is easy to use in an ENG configuration as well. People seem to have forgotten about it all of a sudden - it's an amazing little fella and just seems to do everything. Go out and shoot some great stuff. Sparky
 
Grug said:
Congrats Cuervo, look into setting up some ALL FILES for yourself. You can have up to six available through the side-panel. I have mine set up for the following:

- SR444 normal
- SR444 cropped
- 2K XAVC normal
- 2K XAVC cropped
- 2K XAVC 180fps (switches camera from 25p to 24p timebase to allow maximum framerates)

You could use the sixth one for your 4K ALL FILE too.

With the ALL FILES properly setup, the only time I ever have to press the Menu button is to reformat SxS cards... that's it. Every other function I use becomes accessible from the side-panel, which makes the camera almost as easy to use as the Alexa IMO.
Click to expand...


Thanx, everyone. i wrestled with the cost of this guy for a while, but, now that it's done, absolutely NO regrets. It's really nice.
GRUG: yep, already have two ALL files set up, and one of these is for 4K. And, I've got 9 Scene Files set up. Doug Jensen's book is invaluable, as is the info from Alister Chapman. The O7Q, while adding complexity, makes for a nice heads up monitor, mounted to the left handgrip rosette. It records 10 bit, 422 from the SDI port, holding my breath for the ability to capture 4K Prores, altho' XAVC looks pretty darn nice, ProRes wil AMA link on injest to Media Composer.

-Bill
 
Last edited:
Dennis,
Absolutely! And my apologies for neglecting to mention that I already have your Guide; and, refer to it on a regular basis.
-Bill
 
cuervo said:
holding my breath for the ability to capture 4K Prores
Click to expand...

I too am hoping for this so I can stop transcoding after shoots, its not bad, but it would be a time saver to have prores in-camera. Don't think it will be in 4K but perhaps Sony will surprise us.
 
If you are shooting 4K then Pro Res will take much longer to download files on set. This is a tremendous practical advantage for XAVC. Of course if you are posting yourself and transferring at home, then perhaps it will be faster to shoot Pro Res in the field, but few of us are in that situation.
 
Lenilenapi said:
If you are shooting 4K then Pro Res will take much longer to download files on set. This is a tremendous practical advantage for XAVC. Of course if you are posting yourself and transferring at home, then perhaps it will be faster to shoot Pro Res in the field, but few of us are in that situation.
Click to expand...

Given that Prores 4444 XQ has a target datarate of about 500Mbps and XAVC has a target datarate about 300 Mbps, file sizes will be 1.66x with Prores, as well as taking longer to d/l. I suppose the tradeoff is in picture quality and injest time.
edit: these are target data rates quoted for HD. 4k is 4x larger than HD, but, since the target datarate stays the same, I assume there's 4x the compression going on)
 
Last edited:
I bought an F3, simply I could not justify the cost difference (this was before 4k was announced for the F5)

It is odd to be looking at them both - simply F3 are 1/4 or less money than the F5.

The F3 is the cost of a C100 or less and cheaper than an FS700

My 'problem' with the F3 are..
1) mass (with a recorder)
2) no speed booster
3) Odd SLog unsupported.

If you use a crew (1) is not a problem
If you use primes (2) is not a problem
3) is a problem almost as much with the F5
 
morgan_moore said:
I bought an F3, simply I could not justify the cost difference (this was before 4k was announced for the F5)

It is odd to be looking at them both - simply F3 are 1/4 or less money than the F5.

The F3 is the cost of a C100 or less and cheaper than an FS700

My 'problem' with the F3 are..
1) mass (with a recorder)
2) no speed booster
3) Odd SLog unsupported.

If you use a crew (1) is not a problem
If you use primes (2) is not a problem
3) is a problem almost as much with the F5
Click to expand...

Congrats on the F3. I think it is a camera which will stay relevant a lot longer than many people suggest.
What do you mean by SLOG not supported on it htough?
I only shoot SLOG. Proress 422HQ on a Samurai Blade. Have no trouble ingesting it into any application.
If you are referring to a lack of LUT's, then that is another question.
I personally have never had a need for them and find them more trouble than they are worth, but others here have created or are using some LUT's already out there.
 
Last edited:
yoclay said:
Congrats on the F3. I think it is a camera which will stay relevant a lot longer than many people suggest.
What do you mean by SLOG not supported on it htough?
I only shoot SLOG. Proress 422HQ on a Samurai Blade. Have no trouble ingesting it into any application.
If you are referring to a lack of LUT's, then that is another question.
I personally have never had a need for them and find them more trouble than they are worth, but others here have created or are using some LUT's already out there.
Click to expand...

Ive had the F3 for an age - bought it when the F5 came out (!)

Yep I struggle with lack of Luts - while I can do an 'arty grade' Ive not yet got the hang of a one touch corporate look and certainly am struggling explaining to to third parties a simple workflow.

(in contrast the BMC-Film look has a perfect one touch Lut in Resolve - the cam and post being delivered by one company - Sony's new browse software should have luts!)

I honestly feel that situation is pretty much true across all sony cameras but at least Slog2/3 are better supported.

To me the drawback of the camera is that built is is not too good for solo shooting - Im sure the FS7 will be good for the solo op (although Im still scared of the image.. its a sony!)

For 1080 I feel the image of the F3/422 recorder is very good and will be for a long time - I want out for better ergonomics not better image!

S
 
Lenilenapi said:
If you are shooting 4K then Pro Res will take much longer to download files on set. This is a tremendous practical advantage for XAVC. Of course if you are posting yourself and transferring at home, then perhaps it will be faster to shoot Pro Res in the field, but few of us are in that situation.
Click to expand...

Per file perhaps, but a 64Gb card of ProRes is going to take just as long to download as a 64Gb card of XAVC, and since you're always going to (at the bare minimum) have enough spare media on set to cover the time required to offload a card, I'm not sure that's much of an issue in practical terms. Especially with the transfer speeds we get with USB3 these days.

morgan_moore said:
I bought an F3, simply I could not justify the cost difference (this was before 4k was announced for the F5)

It is odd to be looking at them both - simply F3 are 1/4 or less money than the F5.

The F3 is the cost of a C100 or less and cheaper than an FS700

My 'problem' with the F3 are..
1) mass (with a recorder)
2) no speed booster
3) Odd SLog unsupported.

If you use a crew (1) is not a problem
If you use primes (2) is not a problem
3) is a problem almost as much with the F5
Click to expand...

Sam, do you have a particular camera (film, digital or otherwise) that you base your preferences around? Reading your wishlists I've been trying to think what it could be, but keep coming up stumps. As I'm not sure such a camera exists.

Ergonomically and image-wise it sounds like what you want is an Arri Amira with something like the new Canon 17-120mm zoom. But it also sounds like that's about 4-5x heavier than would work for you. Which writes it off completely and realistically means that just about any S35mm camera is out of the running (due to the shear size of the optics required for zooms with that kind of range).

I wonder if perhaps a digital S16mm camera would work better for you? It'd allow you to use a lightweight S16mm zoom for tonnes of focal range with a manageable size/weight. I actually think something like the F5 would work really well for you if you paired it with a S16mm lens for your run-around work, and then simply threw on a fast prime and switched back to S35mm mode for your more composed interview type shots. Kinda covers all your bases - nice high DR images, lightweight, appropriate optics.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top