F3: F3 or F5

Sam have you tried the slog->LC709 modified LUT that I think I posted somewhere on this site? There were two versions if I remember, an early beta one, then a second one which might have worked way better. try the f35-slog-to-lc709A.cube : http://www.starcentral.ca/forums/LUTs/ If results are s*%t, then let me know, I will dig up better one for you to try. Alternatively use f35 to cineon LUT, then add any fancy LUT's out there already meant for cineon/c-log/log-c/slog3.

I would just give that to your editor or client whoever, tell them to grade after the LUT. If they don't like that, then add the LUT for them and bill them if you can ;)

Just a thought anyway.
 
Ive tried a bunch of luts - but it is not so simple as one needs to expose the shot (and have the exposure tools to do that) in an appropriate manner.

Also the lut has to be designed to output something sensible - which to me would basically be a 709 normal contrast/saturation image (many dont want that as they have built luts that look 'filmic')

S
 
Very pleasant (similar to what im getting!) but nor really a normal look for commercial work. its de-sat and a bit green - I find that cool but many would not.

Also his forehear shows classic wooden lack of contrast as is it in the flat curve of the recording and has not be properly linearised IMO
 
For a regular linearised look, I don't see that there's any need for a LUT whatsoever with plain old SLOG from the F3. Here are a couple of shots from my F3 that I've just regraded for a clean Rec709/linear look. The only thing done to each image is a quick S-Curve in Davinci Resolve, along with a saturation boost from 50 (Davinci's starting point) up to between 65-85 (depending on the shot). This took no longer than 20 seconds per shot, and although it doesn't match the more 'filmic' look I actually graded the clips with, it certainly seems an accurate, linear representation of how these scenes looked on the day.

I really can't see how it can get any easier than that.

jfGfC4T.jpg


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KvS0UgH.jpg
 
morgan_moore said:
Very pleasant (similar to what im getting!) but nor really a normal look for commercial work. its de-sat and a bit green - I find that cool but many would not.

Also his forehear shows classic wooden lack of contrast as is it in the flat curve of the recording and has not be properly linearised IMO
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In fact for me the colouring / timing on this short film is pretty damn nice even considering that it's unfair to comment on most uploads to Vimeo because of the losses and compression. But I would be, am, happy with this kind of a look from the camera.....and again it shows what the F3 can do in the right hands, ( actually that applies to any camera ).
 
No offence to anyone, but since many, including myself at times, struggle to get a "great" "non-wooden" or "filmic" look from the F's, is it really a matter of the camera in the right hands - or the right steps in post?

I think that's the bigger question at hand and something that Sam, myself, and others have been after for a while with the Sony's. Of course lighting, exposure, etc.. play a big role in it but it does not just end there,,, that's what I'm trying to say.
 
Peter - I said the film looked 'nice'

---

Grug

I like them :) the last one might be a tad grey but the others are nice.

How do you expose? Are you using a bunch of fill light?

S
 
morgan_moore said:
Grug

I like them :) the last one might be a tad grey but the others are nice.

How do you expose? Are you using a bunch of fill light?

S
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Yeah, last one's uploaded a bit duller than the grade I exported for some reason (the still I have on my computer looks right).

I expose for SLOG/SLOG2's specific IRE values for middle grey and white (32 and 59 for SLOG2, 38 and 65 for SLOG). I never expose-to-the-right. Basically I just apply the zone system using False Colour to confirm where each part of my frame is falling exposure-wise.

I very rarely use fill light at all - I generally prefer to light faces with a single source.
 
Grug said:
I very rarely use fill light at all - I generally prefer to light faces with a single source.
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I meant the EXTs (in fact the window shot to) is there fill if the 'key' is the sun? ie boards/hmi etc. Surely there is 'fill' on the three shot?

S
 
The window shot had no fill, the reverse angle from the three-shot had a jury-rigged bedsheet providing a large soft source with no supplemental fill, the three shot could potentially have had a polyboard providing a little bounce (it was a year and a half ago so my memory's a little hazy) but I don't think it did, I seem to recall the sun was behind our actors at that point but the sky was overcast, so I was able to expose for their faces whilst maintaining a nice backlight that wasn't blowing out.
 
morgan_moore said:
Peter - I said the film looked 'nice'

Hello Sam, we all come from different places I think when it comes to colour correction, like with music we like this, don't like that….who's to say what's right?. Rap or Mozart? I know which way my mop flops on that, but it doesn't mean my view is right, or wrong either…..No, actually I AM right, but that's another ball of wax.

Personal choices and preferences come into the colour / toning mix, and yes you're right some timing suits some clientele or subject matter while another suits another. This can be confusing when you are trying to see if there's a "look" that's the gold standard. For me I'm sure there isn't one. Red, Sony, Arri, film or digital and so on, it doesn't matter. What does matter is does the timing push the film along, or fight it?
I come from the school where the camera is an invisible actor, a window if you like on the scene, not a participant unless there's a very good reason for it to be so. Colour, timing, like sound design, should be there to enhance the story and that's all. Everything, all the elements tailored to what's trying to be said. So that can take timing in many directions, as it does with sound design too. There's no standard other than good craft and good decisions.

This is the great thing about shooting Slog in whatever flavour your camera has, the output allows you to take the timing in so many directions.

What I meant but didn't make clear in regards to the "The Weird and Wonderful" piece is that I think the timing suited the subject extremely well, in fact for me it was as much a part of the piece as was the dialogue, it helped the mood and I think matched the interviewee's taste too. Very nicely chosen and done.

Cheers….
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If it looked a little green, its probably because the interior lighting appeared to be mostly flos and LED panels.. main reason why I usually opt never to use them.
 
What is the gold standard? Yes good question.

For one you could suggest that 1 2 4 8 16 lightbulbs will appear at stop intervals on the scopes after a 'non look lut' is applied - that is just scientifically correct is it not? Again a grey card should be 100,100,100 etc - just scientifically correct.

That is the 'gold standard' IMO.

Speaking culturally - my background is raw stills and simply Im used to a fully saturated look out of the box which would suit a 'corporate' clientele and then taking that image and de-satting adding green, noise et al to make it talk to me artistically. This is super quick in post for one.. being able to shoot images that are corporate ready but have the flex for 'art' later if desired.

In stills I have various clothing clients who expect 'perfect' colour - I would do that with a gregtag card and then the values are matched (in softaware) to the values printed on the back of the card to the first still of the set. At that point if they sell a 'blue' dress and get 200 returns because it was actually 'purple' then.. well its not my fault!

Commercial colour.. I would not want to film a job like this yet.. but it is exactly where I intend to be able to go.

colour.jpg

S
 
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morgan_moore said:
Commercial colour.. I would not want to film a job like this yet.. but it is exactly where I intend to be able to go.
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The way that's handled, you just make sure there's 8hrs of color work budgeted for a :30 spot, and agency and client sits in on it. Product colors will get secondarys and client can tweak to their hearts desire at $800/hr

There's no end to end way to handle that stuff in motion really other than that!
 
Matt09 said:
I actually have not watched many of these movies to be honest. I think I'll give some of these a look and see good F3 is on professional film making.
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I shot this film 'A Guerra da Beatriz' with the F3:
A sample can be seen here:
https://vimeo.com/76792161

WINNER:
  • GOLDEN PEACOCK (BEST FILM), 44th International Film Festival of India
  • 2013 Australian Cinematographers Society Gold Award (Cinema features) & Judges' Choice Award
 
pix2pixels said:
I shot this film 'A Guerra da Beatriz' with the F3:
A sample can be seen here:
https://vimeo.com/76792161

WINNER:
  • GOLDEN PEACOCK (BEST FILM), 44th International Film Festival of India
  • 2013 Australian Cinematographers Society Gold Award (Cinema features) & Judges' Choice Award
Click to expand...

I am very impressed with the look of this exert from your film... I would love to know more about what you used other than the F3?
Did you shoot S-Log?
Did you export to 444 or 442?
I like the dark scenes a lot,... Something about lighting in the dark always pulls me into a story... It was done very well...
Is there a Behind the Scenes page or something?
I want to see the entire film!
Thank you for posting,... It reassures my F3 Purchase!
 
Thank you for your comments!

On a technical note, here are some brief details:
  • It was shot with s-log in ProRes 422, 10 bit on a Sounddevices PIX240 (all backed up for safety on the camera internal card as well).
  • No on-set monitor, except the screen of the recorder.
  • I have used a Sekonic lightmeter and relied totally on the camera's spot meter info display for very low light scenes (1 fc or less).
  • Light sources were mainly practicals (moonlight, open flame sources, kerosene lamps, candles. We also had some battery operated pocket LED sources - hardly used)
  • Outdoors - white and silver reflectors and a LOT of negative fill.
  • Grading was done with Apple Color.
I am preparing an article with behind the scenes pictures and visual notes. Stay tuned, will keep you posted.

Thank you again for your interest.
 
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