GH2 External Audio - H4n vs Tascam Dr-100

From what reading I've done last night, it seems like the Tascam is better for hooking up external XLR mics with better preamps built in.
 
Yes the Tascam is better but still not fantastic. When shooting normal in-room conversations I had to put both inputs on 10 and never reached 0 db. For me a pre-amp is good when you have to squeeze it down a little. Even the pre-amps of a video-camera like the AF101 are much more sensitive than the Tascam and then the Tascam is called an "audio-recorder". What people keep forgetting is that these recorders are designed for recording musical instruments, not low volume set-noise, conversations or interviews. Like I wrote before, the Zoom is great for recording a Metallica concert from the front row but not for setnoise on a normal average set.
 
RieniO said:
Yes the Tascam is better but still not fantastic. When shooting normal in-room conversations I had to put both inputs on 10 and never reached 0 db. For me a pre-amp is good when you have to squeeze it down a little. Even the pre-amps of a video-camera like the AF101 are much more sensitive than the Tascam and then the Tascam is called an "audio-recorder". What people keep forgetting is that these recorders are designed for recording musical instruments, not low volume set-noise, conversations or interviews. Like I wrote before, the Zoom is great for recording a Metallica concert from the front row but not for setnoise on a normal average set.
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OK, I'll bite. Just out of interest, why would you ever want your audio signal to reach 0dB? That's your absolute hard limit on digital, shouldn't you aim for where the equipment is actually calibrated (usually -18/-20dB), especially as you can record in 24-bit? Otherwise you're pushing the pre-amps past their optimal settings, reducing the headroom and producing more noise in the recordings.

I use a DR100 regularly with both an audio technica lavalier and a boom mic (AT875R) and I've never had to drive the input gain to the max. I've not used an NTG2, which I understand is a fairly quiet mic, but having also used the recorder with a number of studio mics as well (with some good results) I think people are making a bigger deal than is necessary about the preamps.



Edit - Just to clarify, I take your point about not reaching 0dB as a sign that the preamps are quiet - my concern is why you're measuring the recorder's ability to reach the absolute maximum when it can comfortably sit at the -20dB mark with most microphones. I don't think it's a fair evaluation of a recorder's abilities if you're trying to limit the headroom and raise the noise floor further!
 
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My point is that there is no reserve. If the setnoise would be a little bit softer, the DR100 would be useless. Now it was just usable. The pre-amps are too weak, period. Now the NT2s are being blamed but these mikes perform well with the AF101. But maybe I'm overlooking something, is there a gain plus option in the DR100? I never found it. I had trouble finding it on the Beachtek box.
 
Suggestions for LOUD shotgun mikes are very welcome by the way. LOUD but still affordable... $500 to $1000.
 
RieniO said:
Suggestions for LOUD shotgun mikes are very welcome by the way. LOUD but still affordable... $500 to $1000.
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Ah, well :happy:

I have one or two mics - a Sennheiser, an Azden, and Rode stereo videomic. None of them very wonderful, but all more than adequate for my own needs.

Out of curiousity, I bought one of the Chinese 14" shotguns because it was dirt cheap, and I was interested to try it out.

To my surprise it was very good - certainly as good as any of the other mics I own, and in terms of directionality, much better than any of them. The forward pick up pattern is very narrow and defined, with a high dgree of side/rear rejection.

It was also very loud - on 'tele' mode almost too loud.

For the money they simply can't be beaten (imo) I was impressed enough to buy another one as a spare (which was even cheaper - less than £15, delvered from China)

I know the purists will roll their eyes :happy:, and I know they have less than zero street cred - but the mics don't seem to know that they're rubbish, and they insist on working very well indeed. I did swap the cable for Chord, btw.

Incidentally, I found that the H4N reduced noise considerably more than a Tascan DR-07 - and an old Rycote multimount proved to be a real find, eliminating handling noise better than any other shock mount I've tried.
 
@framerate: do you happen to have a model number or better yet a link to the Chinese mic you are referring to?
 
Just a small update... I ended up purchasing the Tascam DR-100 and I can tell you I am thrilled with the sound quality. Many people have stated that they have a difficult time getting the volume they need out of their mics when using phantom power via XLR... I plugged in an AKG Perception 420 and it sounds gorgeous. There are always better preamps but there is not much noise and the thing works like a charm. I purchased a few more of the lithium batteries and the external charger, so I'm good to go.

My only complaint is that it seems a bit big. In my opinion, they could have slimmed down this unit bigtime. There is no need for the omni mics since the directional ones work just fine n dandy. Otherwise this thing is beautiful. Very glad I went with this over the Zoom.
 
It depends on what you are recording. I need to record sounds as soft like needles falling on the floor and I achieve that now with the Beachtek preamp but couldn't achieve it with the Tascam 100, using the same mikes for both set-ups. But maybe the AKG 420 is a more sensitive microphone then the Azden en Rode XLR mikes I'm using?
 
I think you are right about the sensitivity. The AKG 420 is a large diaphragm condenser mic which can be used for everything from vocals to guitars to drum overheads. I also did a test using my Audio Technica 896 shotgun mic and was very pleased with the results.

The Rode video mic is basically a compact shotgun mic meant to be mounted to DSLRs. Its a great mic but not what I would use to record needles falling on the floor. I would probably use an AKG 170 for that to be honest. (Note: I don't work for AKG, I just love their equipment.) However, I completely understand if the Tascam had a noise floor issue. I have NOT tried to record anything like what you described. Instead everything I'm doing is either interviews or music, in which case the Tascam is perfect.

Only drawback is the size. I definitely wont sneak it into a Rolling Stones concert.
 
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So I should give this AKG 120 a try. Does it have built-in pre-amps witing the microphone?
 
I apologize... I was referring to the 170, not the 120. My bad. (link)

It does not have its own preamp. I worked extensively in music and the 170 is one of those mics that I found myself using constantly on things like jazz drums, highhat, acoustic guitar, violin, chello, so forth.. Just a beautiful pencil condenser with a cardiod pickup pattern.

I'm sure someone will chime in with a much more impressive mic, but honestly I'm more of a get-it-done type of engineer, and this mic, when used with decent preamps, is great at capturing fine detail IMHO.
 
GrahamH said:
@framerate: do you happen to have a model number or better yet a link to the Chinese mic you are referring to?
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Sorry for the late reply - just seen your question.


The mics are the HTDZ-81 ('High Tech Development Zone', would you beleive) and are just over 14" long. They come with an long XLR cable and a couple of cheap mic stand mount. As mentioned, I junked the cables for Chord ones, and use a Rycote 'Softie' mount.


I've used it ('them', I have two) with a Tascam DR-07 and the Zoom H4n, and they drive both sets of premaps very well.

They're as cheap as chips, and seem quite good to me - I've used two as a stereo pair into the H4n XLR inputs, and was pleased with the result.

As mentioned, they are very directional - certainly the most directional mics I've ever used.

I've also just bought a couple of Rode M3's, and these do sound better than the HTDZ's - sweeter and more detailed, but they still don't have the 'loudness' of the HTDZ's. (and cost nearly 5x the price) They're heavy mics (the M3's) - almost an offensive weapon ;) and two of them on a hand held rig are quite weighty with all the other paraphenalia added.

I will probably sell my other mics and keep the HTDZ's for shotgun use, and the Rodes for general use.

The HTDZ mics are always for sale on ebay - 'just search for 'shotgun mic', and up they'll pop.

They also do a smaller 10" version with the same spec, which might be better for rig use (and certainly better for camera hot-shoe use)

Just out of interest, a windjammer for a Sennheiser MKE300 fits the HTDZ perfectly even though the Sennheiser is a much shorter mic, the windjammer covers the foam nicely. Also, the Rode 'dead kitten' windjammer (as supplied with the stere videomic) is a great fit on the M3's
 
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H2 has slightly better mics than the H4--small difference--H4 has p48. The DR 680 is very good, no preamps needed. Fostex FR2LE very good on music, two channels only, needs two good mics.
I would not say any of them are built to be dropped.
 
No I have NOT heard about that upgrade potential, but I will definitely keep it in mind for the future. I will be shooting them an email asking about the battery life difference. I am thoroughly pleased with the unit after using it extensively.
 
Thanks for the info on the upgrade on the DR100... I'll be checking that out also! Hopefully they have some before and after samples.
 
Very good thread. Been looking at audio options for a while.

I'm considering the Marantz PMD661 and a Rode NTG-3.

I've heard the Marantz is slightly better than the Tascam DR100 (even with the upgrades). Anyone use this model? how does it compare to the Tascam and Zoom H4N? It's a couple hundred dollars more, but I've been burned by audio before and want to make sure I get something that I don't have to think about and will give me great results for a long time, no matter what the situation.
 
Daniel Kim said:
Very good thread. Been looking at audio options for a while.

I'm considering the Marantz PMD661 and a Rode NTG-3.

I've heard the Marantz is slightly better than the Tascam DR100 (even with the upgrades). Anyone use this model? how does it compare to the Tascam and Zoom H4N? It's a couple hundred dollars more, but I've been burned by audio before and want to make sure I get something that I don't have to think about and will give me great results for a long time, no matter what the situation.
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I can't speak to the battery life but the Marantz sounds great. I didn't go with it because the Tascam will do exactly what I need it to do... BUT... if I weren't on such a tight budget, I would have gone with the Marantz.
 
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