GH2 External Audio - H4n vs Tascam Dr-100

HotConductor

HotConductor

Well-known member
I prefer Tascam as a brand, and the design looks much better (to my eyes). Has anyone had experience with both? If so, I would love to hear your thoughts.

I am looking for a field recorder that has two XLR inputs with phantom power, and records to SD cards. 48kHz 16bit would be the minimal spec I would use.

Thank you in advance for your help!
 
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they booth have different price range ..
actually.. the best different booth product is on PreAmp Quality..
Maybe i prefer tascam for this topic..
but the H4N is not only recorder with two of preamp.. they also Audio Device Hardware.. which can record via Digital Audio Workstation that have asio driver v.2 to record with zero latency.

This maybe good for comparison (without external microphone) :
1. Zoom h4n + Art Tube preamp with 9volt battery = $300+$100 = $400 (tube Preamp Quality)
2. Tascam DR 100 = $400 - $500 (Solid State Preamp Quality)
 
After Zoom and Tascam I'm using the Beachtek DSLR box with XLR and pre-amps in combination with my GH2 and I'm finally HAPPY. This combination rocks.
 
The Beachtek DSLR box and the juicedlink DT454 are JUST preamps. They don't record anything themselves, they just power mics. Those are GREAT units, but I'm looking for a portable field recorder (preferably one that can be hotshoe mounted), not just a preamp.

I do NOT want to use the on-board recording mechanism as my main audio recording device. You can't turn off the auto-gain on the GH2, so I need an external audio for pure uncompressed audio, which is why I am considering the H4n or the Tascam DR100.

My plan at this point is to get the Tascam, and feed the audio back into the GH2.. That way I will have the audio on my GH2, and when I drop in the clean, uncompressed wav files from the Tascam, I can easily sync up the footage and simply remove the GH2 audio. Very clean recording technique, and removes all issues.

Note: I do not plan on using the on-board mics except for in a real emergency. I have my own shotgun mics, lavs, mixing consoles, so forth. I just want a decent (doesn't need be amazing) preamp and portable recorder that uses SD cards.
 
The cool thing about H4N is that it's actually a 4 track recorder. It records the 2 XLR and the stereo XY mics simultaneously. It's just an extra precausion. In total you get 6 sound tracks with the two from the camera.
 
Does the GH2 have auto-gain? I didn't notice anything of auto-gain behaviour in the GH2 so AFAIK the GH2 doesn't have auto-gain. If it does, you can disable it using the Beachtek AG disabler but I didn't need to use that.
Trust me, this setup with using the Beachtek as a pre-amp and the GH2 as a recording device gives better/cleaner audio than the Zoom and the Tascam all together. These Zoom and Tascam boxes are just overrated and I wish I never purchased them because now I need to find a way to get rid of them. They're nice for recording interviews if you're not using a cam, I wouldn't use the Zoom for recording my guitar playing (that's what it was originally designed for - an aid for musicians). The GH1 had auto-gain, AFAIK they dropped it on the GH2, and added the 4 step input level adjustment.
I should have time tomorrow to take my set-up into the quiet forest tomorrow to record some of the birds singing, that should give you a good impression. And at least you're about to choose for the Tascam, at least that thing doesn't have audio-drift.
 
AFAIK? If the autogain was disabled on the GH2 then that is news to me, and good news at that. I may still buy a tascam for the fact that I need a decent field recorder with xlrs, but I would LOVE to use less gear.. I always worry about on board dslr audio as I have yet to be impressed.
 
HotConductor said:
The Beachtek DSLR box and the juicedlink DT454 are JUST preamps. They don't record anything themselves, they just power mics. Those are GREAT units, but I'm looking for a portable field recorder (preferably one that can be hotshoe mounted), not just a preamp.

I do NOT want to use the on-board recording mechanism as my main audio recording device. You can't turn off the auto-gain on the GH2, so I need an external audio for pure uncompressed audio, which is why I am considering the H4n or the Tascam DR100.

My plan at this point is to get the Tascam, and feed the audio back into the GH2.. That way I will have the audio on my GH2, and when I drop in the clean, uncompressed wav files from the Tascam, I can easily sync up the footage and simply remove the GH2 audio. Very clean recording technique, and removes all issues.

Note: I do not plan on using the on-board mics except for in a real emergency. I have my own shotgun mics, lavs, mixing consoles, so forth. I just want a decent (doesn't need be amazing) preamp and portable recorder that uses SD cards.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you know this as it sounds like you've done your research, but the h4N has weak pre-amps. You may find some of your XLR shotgun mics sounding very quiet. Couldn't get decent audio outdoors with my NTG-2. I've gone a simpler/weaker but better approach for me since then - Zoom h1 and Videomic Pro.
 
AFAIK = as far as I know.
You recognize auto gain by the noise getting louder at quiet moments and the GH2 doesn't do that, the noise always remains at the same level. All I can say is that the GH2 is noisy in general especially when you put the input level at 4. That is why I recommend to put it on 1 and put the gain and levels of the BeachTek on maximum. In that way you achieve a noise/signal ratio that isn't worse than the AF101 or the Zoom or the Tascam and then the next thing to do to get lower noise is purchasing better mikes (I now use Rode and Azdem mikes, which can't be compard to >$2000 high quality low noise mikes. Wait for me to go into the forest tomorrow to do some test recordings, provided that it doesn't rain.
Also it's possible that the GH2 does have auto-gain, but comparable of that of the AF101 auto-gain option. This means that it merely works as a limiter and only jumps in at very loud moments but remains inactive at quiet moments which is much less annoying that a real auto-gain.
 
I'm with you brother. If the autogain acts as a limiter, and doesn't actually compress the audio all the time, then thats not a problem in my mind. I have NOT tried running anything into the input myself. From day one I have run the input level at 1.

The ideal test, for me, would be running music (Rolling Stones - She's So Cold, ideal track to test clarity, definition and dynamic range) and letting it hit just a notch below peak level. Take the audio, line it up with the original wav file, pan one left and one right... Then see what the noise floor/compression/limiting REALLY is.

With mics its all subjective. I use Audio Technica shotgun mics and Sennheisser lavs in the field. AKG mics in the studio. Mics are not a problem, the input is the weak link for me. Testing raw flac/wav/cd going into the input, is a much more accurate method for testing the pure sound quality of the GH2. If you are able to do that you would be my hero! Otherwise I may just have to buy an adapter and do that test...
 
RieniO said:
AFAIK = as far as I know.
You recognize auto gain by the noise getting louder at quiet moments and the GH2 doesn't do that, the noise always remains at the same level. All I can say is that the GH2 is noisy in general especially when you put the input level at 4. That is why I recommend to put it on 1 and put the gain and levels of the BeachTek on maximum. In that way you achieve a noise/signal ratio that isn't worse than the AF101 or the Zoom or the Tascam and then the next thing to do to get lower noise is purchasing better mikes (I now use Rode and Azdem mikes, which can't be compard to >$2000 high quality low noise mikes. Wait for me to go into the forest tomorrow to do some test recordings, provided that it doesn't rain.
Also it's possible that the GH2 does have auto-gain, but comparable of that of the AF101 auto-gain option. This means that it merely works as a limiter and only jumps in at very loud moments but remains inactive at quiet moments which is much less annoying that a real auto-gain.
Click to expand...

The GH2 does have AGC:

http://k9soundtech.blogspot.com/2011/01/gh2-is-agc.html

FYI.
 
Grisnjam said:
The GH2 does have AGC:

http://k9soundtech.blogspot.com/2011/01/gh2-is-agc.html

FYI.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this link.

I don't notice much of this AGC and I know what AGC does from working with AGC cams in the past. AFAIK it works as a limiter, not as a real auto gain. If not then maybe I'm defeating the AGC by putting input level of GH2 on "1" and putting Beachtek output to the max. In the situations I shoot in, it's never really quiet and any noise should put the AGC back to sleep. To be sure I will also test the AGC disabler of the Beachtek, I've turned it on a few times already and noticed some differences and the high frequency signal of the AGC disable you absolutely do not hear. So maybe I should test with that a bit further.

I'm going to edit the material I've been shooting last week now, after that I'll really know if this combination of the Beachtek and the GH2 provides usable audio for the low-budget shooting I do. If not, I'll use the Beachtek as a pre-amp for the Tascam 100, that should make me really happy and get me going for at least another year.

Let's hope Panasonic will add an "AGC off" option in the next firmware. The GH2 could really be the perfect video camera, the last camera you'll ever need to buy (I sold my AF101 for it).

Rieni
 
What does make this box better than the Tascam? The most important things are sync and pre-amps. If I was uying a box like this again, I would search the web for hard figured about the pre-amps. It shouldn't be that hard to build a box like this with PROPER pre-amps. (those of the Zoom suck, I keep repeating that).

HotConductor said:
After reading extensive reviews I am considering this instead... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...MD661_PMD661_Professional_Portable_Flash.html
Click to expand...
 
Marantz has better preamps than Tascam. Easily. I believe you about the Zoom, which is why I began investigating other options to begin with.
 
bronxjragon said:
I'm sure you know this as it sounds like you've done your research, but the h4N has weak pre-amps. You may find some of your XLR shotgun mics sounding very quiet. Couldn't get decent audio outdoors with my NTG-2. I've gone a simpler/weaker but better approach for me since then - Zoom h1 and Videomic Pro.
Click to expand...
Technically, it's not that the Zoom H4N has "weak" preamps, it's that the Rode NTG-2 produces a weak output signal which requires more gain than the XLR inputs provide. I've found that with these types of condensers, it's best to run them on the mic's internal battery and plug them directly into the mini-jack input on the bottom of the H4N, bypassing the built-in mics. This is how I use the Audio Technica AT897 with the H4N. OTOH, the Audio Technica AT875R has a stronger output signal and works well with the XLR inputs.
 
lpowell said:
Technically, it's not that the Zoom H4N has "weak" preamps, it's that the Rode NTG-2 produces a weak output signal which requires more gain than the XLR inputs provide. I've found that with these types of condensers, it's best to run them on the mic's internal battery and plug them directly into the mini-jack input on the bottom of the H4N, bypassing the built-in mics. This is how I use the Audio Technica AT897 with the H4N. OTOH, the Audio Technica AT875R has a stronger output signal and works well with the XLR inputs.
Click to expand...

Using my AT897 and my Sennheiser lavs/handhelds, I can push as much gain as needed to the unit, without bumping up the XLR gains dramatically. So as long as I'm using higher quality equipment, the Tascam or the H4N will likely be sufficient right?

I'm going to attempt to get my hands on both units and try them.

Looking forward to hearing your nature samples!
 
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