C200: Event I shot in C200 Canon Raw Light

[cane141]

I really liked the Cinematography, and its morning here and this made me want to drink scotch so your definitely doing something right. I am a sucker for the punchier saturated look, but this is really solid work and I'm impressed with whats coming out of the C200. I just bought a C300mkII, I think this will be my B cam/60fps work horse in the future.

Cheers for the kind comments!

Well, I am actually selling my C300mkii to possibly go RED SW for an A-cam and keeping the C200 for low light, gimbal and b-cam in raw alongside the RED. Its a difficult choice as I like the variable frame rates on the C300mkii and it's a good option for when handing over footage to clients whereas with Raw light it'll be hard sell until we see it native in the NLE editors...

 

[puredrifting]

Cheers, yes, I edited and am guilty of the grading, I guess I just haven't quite fallen for that punchy, saturated look that seems to be popular, I've always tried to tone down and keep the grade subtle, raised blacks, less sat etc but I hear where you're coming from and right now, I'm trying out different methods with Resolve etc to get more of a stronger punchier grade on future projects.

Definitely just a matter of taste, I think your grade looks fine and the look is in vogue, that low constrast, low color saturation look is very popular, it just doesn't appeal to me because it seems artificially duller than life, it's like real life on mute. Different strokes...

 

[cane141]

Definitely just a matter of taste, I think your grade looks fine and the look is in vogue, that low constrast, low color saturation look is very popular, it just doesn't appeal to me because it seems artificially duller than life, it's like real life on mute. Different strokes...

I understand, I guess I always push for a more unrealistic / fantastical look when it comes to grading images, like in the same way with cinema and celluloid, the bleach bypass always appealed to me, looks from films like Minority Report or Wes Anderson etc

I like to stylize the image and try and move away from real life in the same way you would with music promos unless of course it's a real life documentary where you want to keep it neutral and undistracting I guess.

I really like the look from a lot of 80's film classics and you do see a lot of punchy, inky blacks and saturated colours but sometimes the constraints of an event project like this with ambient mixed lighting and client brand approval/deadlines dictate the final cut and grade.

 

[siliconlife]

RED is definitely on my roadmap. I would have done it now, but a full SW system is going to be 22k just to get you going. C300mkii was half that, and I love shooting documentary stuff. When I move to RED, I'll likely go to their Helium sensor just for the low light performance and image quality. I think I'll add a C200 before that though...and I'll still keep all my cameras.

 

[anatusa]

well with RED there is one thing - u may use their service center more often then u would expect .... over and over again.. i cant afford that for example ...

 

[siliconlife]

well with RED there is one thing - u may use their service center more often then u would expect .... over and over again.. i cant afford that for example ...

I really feel like you need to have regular clients lined up to justify moving to RED. If you are shooting a lot of higher end music videos or TV class productions, go for it. With the Canon cinema cams, I find that there isn't much I can't tackle and clients always like the delivery quality and image formats. I've also seen the C300mkii create a 12bit 2k image in CLog3 that after post could have come off a RED or an Alexa. The potential quality for the price is hard to argue.

 

[cane141]

I really feel like you need to have regular clients lined up to justify moving to RED. If you are shooting a lot of higher end music videos or TV class productions, go for it. With the Canon cinema cams, I find that there isn't much I can't tackle and clients always like the delivery quality and image formats. I've also seen the C300mkii create a 12bit 2k image in CLog3 that after post could have come off a RED or an Alexa. The potential quality for the price is hard to argue.

There is some validity in what you say but in this ever evolving industry, we are now seeing vloggers shooting on Epic-W's just because they can or corporates and events being shot on Scarlet-W's or Epic Dragons.

I actually saw an Alexa Mini at a conference the other day and i guess it's not much of big deal now, it's just a very a different market now than what it was 3 years ago.

There are definitely clients who appreciate RED cameras and understand that it's a different workflow to the quick turnaround of a Canon or Sony, if they don't, then that's miscommunication on the project, of course there are certain jobs where you just cannot shoot Red, much like in the same way some photographers have a Phase One for special shoots and a 5D4 for the fast turnaround work.

I agree the 2K 12bit image is awesome but if you feel the need to shoot something that good then why not aim higher with a RED 5K,6K, it will take it to the next level.

I would argue that there are limits with the C300 mkii and C200 as we all know, hence the price points...

 

[bill totolo]

After watching this I'd love to see what this camera can do with some vintage lenses on it.

 

[Gary T]

After watching this I'd love to see what this camera can do with some vintage lenses on it.

Agreed. I don't think we have what this camera could do with higher end narrative work.

I think the C200 puts Canon in a difficult position. It would be great for they commissioned a narrative short shot by an ASC cinematographer with prime lenses, great production design, lighting and grading, but I don't think they will. People might look at it and say "that might be the best thing I have ever seen shot on a Canon camera." The C200 would fly off the shelves but that might not help C300 MKII or C700 sales.

 

[Gary T]

There is some validity in what you say but in this ever evolving industry, we are now seeing vloggers shooting on Epic-W's just because they can or corporates and events being shot on Scarlet-W's or Epic Dragons.

We occasionally hire shooters for events and I have a different take on REDs being used for that type of work. We have sometimes had someone with a Epic Dragon or some other RED camera submit for a event project where we didn't specify a camera. We typically have very tight turnarounds where we need to get ProRes to the editors often minutes after the shoot so most of the older REDs aren't a good option. Even though I didn't rent their cameras I sometimes hired them as shooters and in our conversations I got the sense that wasn't enough work for the older RED cameras. Of course this is anecdotal and the guys I talked to might have been the exception to the rule. Additionally most of these conversations were a couple of years ago so market might have changed.

The problem might be that are many more RED cameras than there are skilled RED shooters. You're obviously very talented so I am sure you will be busy whatever camera you are using.

One thing that is cool about the new REDs is they apparently can capture high quality ProRes in addition to the RAW which might make them better suited for event work with tight turnarounds.

 

[indiawilds]

I actually saw an Alexa Mini at a conference the other day and i guess it's not much of big deal now, it's just a very a different market now than what it was 3 years ago.

I didn't knew that conference shooting can be high paying to justify an Alexa Mini.

 

[cane141]

We occasionally hire shooters for events and I have a different take on REDs being used for that type of work. We have sometimes had someone with a Epic Dragon or some other RED camera submit for a event project where we didn't specify a camera. We typically have very tight turnarounds where we need to get ProRes to the editors often minutes after the shoot so most of the older REDs aren't a good option. Even though I didn't rent their cameras I sometimes hired them as shooters and in our conversations I got the sense that wasn't enough work for the older RED cameras. Of course this is anecdotal and the guys I talked to might have been the exception to the rule. Additionally most of these conversations were a couple of years ago so market might have changed.

The problem might be that are many more RED cameras than there are skilled RED shooters. You're obviously very talented so I am sure you will be busy whatever camera you are using.

One thing that is cool about the new REDs is they apparently can capture high quality ProRes in addition to the RAW which might make them better suited for event work with tight turnarounds.

I totally agree, for tight turnaround it's not going to work ( 2K prores maybe I guess ) and thats where the line is for most shooters, it's always about using the right tool for the situation, thats why for most freelancers / 1 man shooters, they need a few cameras to cover different environments.

For me, I tend to get about 50% shoot with edits, so I can figure out whats's the best workflow for the final deliverable.

Other times it's just handing over the footage to clients so I make absolutely clear on what I'm shooting on and what format they are getting etc. I know for sure Canon raw light is not going to be an option in those situations and most probably RED unless it's specifically a client who wants RED R3Ds

 

[cane141]

I didn't knew that conference shooting can be high paying to justify an Alexa Mini.

I'm based in the UAE and you see that kind if thing quite frequently, yep, I've seen RED's at horse race events and weddings, but I guess it's cameramen/videographers/small boutique companies who have invested in these high end cameras and rather use them on every job that comes there way, rather than sit on the shelf waiting for the next tvc or hi-end promo.

 

[akolyadich]

I'm based in the UAE and you see that kind if thing quite frequently, yep, I've seen RED's at horse race events and weddings, but I guess it's cameramen/videographers/small boutique companies who have invested in these high end cameras and rather use them on every job that comes there way, rather than sit on the shelf waiting for the next tvc or hi-end promo.

I agree, I have the c200 as well, and I would rather shoot with it all the time even on lower end gigs because its not going to cost me any more than I have already invested.

edit: Great video btw, especially considering you went hand held!

 

[otispk]

Hey Cane,

how big are the prores 4444 files? I just shot about the same amount of Canon Raw and want to transcode it to prores 4444 but that would need 5,9TB of storage.

Is that possible or am I doing something wrong here?

Thanks

The workflow was pretty straight forward, straight into Canon Raw app then out to prores 4444, shot around 2X 256gb cards and half a 128gb an it was transcoded in a few hours ready to cut in FCPX, I have the mac pro 64gb trashcan and seem pretty flawless so far.

 

[cane141]

Hey Cane,

how big are the prores 4444 files? I just shot about the same amount of Canon Raw and want to transcode it to prores 4444 but that would need 5,9TB of storage.

Is that possible or am I doing something wrong here?

Thanks

Yep, you just reminded me of this, I also had the same issue, I shot around 2X 256gb cards and 1X 128gb worth and I also had the warning of not enough space on my 4TB drive.

I had to transcode each card in parts and realized I had lots of space but somehow the Canon app was telling me I didn't have enough space, anyway, transcoding the clips in small batches from each card seemed to get around the warning and after all the files where done, it was nowhere near the the size of the warning.

This maybe a bug or maybe has something to do with needing more memory cache or something while it transcodes and copy the files, I'm not sure but small batches seemed to do the trick.