EVA1: EVA1 8/3/17 Press Release and Specifications

[Jason R. Johnston]

to those without the resources to afford such lenses shooting in situations less amenable to frame, then focus..you can imagine the benefit of AF.

Of course I can imagine.

I have the IBE HDx35 2/3" B4 lens to s35 adapter and I can use my ENG lenses on s35 sensor cams with PL, EF and FZ(F5/55/3) mounts(they make other mounts, as well).

Outstanding information! I found their website and will investigate. Thanks so much!

....

Okay, going back to EVA1...

 

[Jason R. Johnston]

Mitch:

There is a wheel on the handgrip, yes? Is it the kind you scroll to choose and then press to select, or do you have to push another button to select?

I imagine the handgrip will work detached directly from the body via a cable connection that can be lengthened, say for mouting the grip to an extension arm for shoulder-mount rigs. The mount itself is different from an arri rosette system, but I'm sure the concept is the same. Or, must the handgrip be attached directly to the body for it to work?

Thanks for your time!

 

[wschmid]

Published RAW output specs:

5.7K 10-bit uncompressed 23.98p, 24p, 25p, 29.97p
4K 10-bit uncompressed 23.98p, 24p, 25p, 29.97p, 50p, 59.94p

RAW output coming in a future firmware update.

Note that EVA1 RAW, like VariCam RAW, is both uncompressed and Log encoded. This is unlike Sony FS RAW, which is both compressed and Linear encoded. Linear encoding is generally agreed to be less efficient and a 12-bit Linear holds less effective information than 10-bit Log.

And no, it is not valid to make the assumption that the EVA1 has 10-bit internal signal processing. That seems to me to be an overreaching statement.

I think it is important to know that we will have external 10bit up to 5.7K 30p and 4K 60p with raw and external recorders. Even if I would have liked to see internal recording with 10bit up to 4K 60p since that is the existing FS7 benchmark.

And wonder why we cannot have 12bit log raw if the signal processing seems to be 12 bit or even higher, as you indicate by your wording "overreaching". But I understand that you will not state here more very likely.

If the 10bit Canon log raw will be better then the 12bit linear Sony raw - well we will see. Is there any indication about the roadmap when raw will be available?

 

[Jason R. Johnston]

signal processing seems to be 12 bit or even higher, as you indicate by your wording "overreaching"

I do not think it means what you think it means.

'Overreaching' does not mean "greater than." Speaking of overreaching: me. lol

 

[Sttratos]

Correct on the 4K.

I would hope for Spring but there's not an officially released date. Now that I've said that I'm sure you'll all be posting that Mitch Said It's This!!! and I'll get in trouble.

I think as it's always said, people should buy the camera based on what it does now. Not based on what it's promised it will do one day. But you just know people will buy it now because of what it will do in the future, and then complain the update is taking too long. Or worse, complain it doesn't do things it was never promised to do just because such and such new camera will do. So, yes, you are in trouble. You just know your hypothetical "date" has just been written in stone as official. :grin:

So is the internet.

 

[Sttratos]

I'll be a suck-egg mule. I no longer have any excuses as to why I stink at being a DP. If you can't make a fabulous documentary, commercial, or feature with this thing, you need to get another career. Life is good!

Actually that has been true way before the EVA1. We ran out of excuses long ago. Unless you are only talking about very cheap cameras. But let's wait for actual images before we declare anything here. Every year there is a new hot camera and when video is released people are put back in their reality. Ursa 4K, Cion, FS7, that JVC 4/3 mount camera, Ursa Mini 4.6K, DVX200, FS5 etc.

I look forward to actual video from the EVA1.

 

[Zak Forsman]

I think as it's always said, people should buy the camera based on what it does now. Not based on what it's promised it will do one day. But you just know people will buy it now because of what it will do in the future, and then complain the update is taking too long. Or worse, complain it doesn't do things it was never promised to do just because such and such new camera will do. So, yes, you are in trouble. You just know your hypothetical "date" has just been written in stone as official. :grin:

So is the internet.

I've already seen "Spring" thrown around on one of the EVA1 Facebook groups.

 

[Sttratos]

You keep asking these questions about AF but I think if you need it that bad just get the c200 and deal with Raw, I don't think this camera is going to be that great relying on AF

Or God forbid...work with a focus puller.

 

[Sttratos]

I've already seen "Spring" thrown around on one of the EVA1 Facebook groups.

And...here...we...go.

That was fast!

 

[Sttratos]

It is better to think in s35mm terms like film makers really do. Steven Spielberg doesn't walk around thinking what a 28mm lens looks like when shooting stills. He doesn't give a rat's butt what a lens looks like when shooting stills.

FF is not the norm in our world and should be considered an enlarged sensor (like cropped but the opposite) and outside the norm of what we do.

I think this just depends from each side of the market you start from or are coming from. People who work on high end couldn't care less about FF and speak in S35 terms. People who comes from DSLRs and moving up will probably never stop speaking about the non existent crop factor thing. It's just about how you learned and it is hard to let go from old habits.

 

[Sttratos]

I admire you're steadfastness. However, it reminds me of these statements.

“Fooling around with alternating current (AC) is just a waste of time. Nobody will use it, ever.” — Thomas Edison

"Television won't be able to hold on to any market it captures after the first six months. People will soon get tired of staring at a plywood box every night." — Darryl Zanuck, 20th Century Fox.

“There’s no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share.” — Steve Ballmer, Microsoft CEO.

For each of those there is a Betamax vs VHS story too. So it doesn't say much. AF is only useful for one man bands. I don't believe it will ever fully replace focus pullers. Not for productions that can afford one and do the type of work where a puller is better than AF.

 

[CharlesPapert]

I think this just depends from each side of the market you start from or are coming from. People who work on high end couldn't care less about FF and speak in S35 terms. People who comes from DSLRs and moving up will probably never stop speaking about the non existent crop factor thing. It's just about how you learned and it is hard to let go from old habits.

I suppose that is true to an extent--I do tend to translate focal lengths into S35--but there are so many formats in filmmaking that one has to be adept at making the mental translation for whichever you are working in at the time. I shot way more 16mm and 2/3" video than 35 coming up, but I never found those halved focal length sizes "normal". For a filmmaker like Spielberg who has shot extensively in anamorphic 35mm and Vistavision for effects work (which is very close to full frame), I'm sure he can juggle those focal lengths in his head quite nimbly.

Ultimately, cinematography is a constant internal monologue of maths; we must compute our exposure considering filter factors, ISO, shutter angle and aperture on a minute by minute basis, let alone lighting ratios and color temperatures and blah blah blah. Calculating focal lengths for an extra format on set isn't a huge difference to that workload. Since the 5DMKII, many DP's have a full frame camera around for one reason or another--I keep my A7S on the truck as a grabber for unmanned lockoffs, stunts etc.

 

[Sttratos]

I suppose that is true to an extent--I do tend to translate focal lengths into S35--but there are so many formats in filmmaking that one has to be adept at making the mental translation for whichever you are working in at the time. I shot way more 16mm and 2/3" video than 35 coming up, but I never found those halved focal length sizes "normal". For a filmmaker like Spielberg who has shot extensively in anamorphic 35mm and Vistavision for effects work (which is very close to full frame), I'm sure he can juggle those focal lengths in his head quite nimbly.

Ultimately, cinematography is a constant internal monologue of maths; we must compute our exposure considering filter factors, ISO, shutter angle and aperture on a minute by minute basis, let alone lighting ratios and color temperatures and blah blah blah. Calculating focal lengths for an extra format on set isn't a huge difference to that workload. Since the 5DMKII, many DP's have a full frame camera around for one reason or another--I keep my A7S on the truck as a grabber for unmanned lockoffs, stunts etc.

The thing is not the calculation. The the problem is considering S35 a cropped format. It is not. It's hard to argue that S35 is the standard for motion. Now if we were talking still photography...

 

[Sttratos]

https://www.hdwarrior.co.uk/2017/08/04/panasonic-eva-1-great-camera-wrong-price/

I wonder given the current market if Panasonic could have priced the EVA1 even more aggressively ?
Offering it for 6,000-6,500 Dollars. It would have killed preorders of the C200 in it's tracks especially if it was priced
at 6,000. I understand they need to make a profit but given the fact that in 6 months to 1 year it will probably
be discounted to this price anyway they could have sent out a really strong signal to the competition from the start.

EDIT
I just checked the price of the EVA1 at ProAV in the U.K.

https://www.proav.co.uk/panasonic-au-eva1-compact-5-7k-super-35mm-cinema-camera

For European customers it is working out at
8,405 Euro (inc Vat) if you add a few batteries, basic accessories and a lens you would be looking
at about 10,000 Euro. IMO 6,500-7,000 Euro (including vat) would have made it a very attractive proposition.

The HD warrior article is gone. I had to read the cached version. Who got to them? rogar-BigGrin(DBG)

 

[Danilo Del Tufo]

AF is only useful for one man bands. I don't believe it will ever fully replace focus pullers.

I'd like to understand one thing, if you use a lens and do autofocus on EVA1, for a interview for example, and the subject moves his head, you must re-do autofocus for some differences of distance of few inches, or the focus remain for a certain distance behind the subject (it means also that depends by the lens, Depth of Field, lens aperture)? Sorry for the neophyte question, but I've only used cameras till now with fixed lens like HPX170.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Or God forbid...work with a focus puller.

WHAT!?!?!

:2vrolijk_08:

 

[filmguy123]

I'm all about the future of AF but I don't really care if the EVA-1 has it or not. I'm sure it will be more of a consideration on the EVA-2 as the tech (and competition) continually matures.

 

[Gary T]

Published RAW output specs:

5.7K 10-bit uncompressed 23.98p, 24p, 25p, 29.97p
4K 10-bit uncompressed 23.98p, 24p, 25p, 29.97p, 50p, 59.94p

RAW output coming in a future firmware update.

Note that EVA1 RAW, like VariCam RAW, is both uncompressed and Log encoded. This is unlike Sony FS RAW, which is both compressed and Linear encoded. Linear encoding is generally agreed to be less efficient and a 12-bit Linear holds less effective information than 10-bit Log.

And no, it is not valid to make the assumption that the EVA1 has 10-bit internal signal processing. That seems to me to be an overreaching statement.

Do the math. The limit is the 6G spigot, followed by the recording capacities on the SATA-based SSDs used by the offboard recorders. These are the pinchpoints in the pipe.

So 12 bit 60P might be stretch but it seems like the EVA1 could send 12 bit 5.7K/50P and 12 bit 4K/30P to an external raw recorder on a single 6G port. In the latter case it would match the 12 bit log output of the C200 and in the former case is seems like blow everything else in it's price range out of the water. As it is being limited to 10 bit at 4K/30 might allow Canon to muddy the water.

When I do the math it seams like current recorder technology is fast enough even for 5.7K/60P. Isn't 5.7K/60P essentially the same data rate as the 4k 120P that the Odyssey 7Q has been capturing from the FS700 for a few years? If so it seems like other 5.7K/50P would be a piece of cake.

To be clear I was just curious when I asked. I think the EVA1 looks to be an amazing camera and i can't wait to try it out this fall.

Thanks,
Gary

 

[Noel Evans]

Mitch:

There is a wheel on the handgrip, yes? Is it the kind you scroll to choose and then press to select, or do you have to push another button to select?

I imagine the handgrip will work detached directly from the body via a cable connection that can be lengthened, say for mouting the grip to an extension arm for shoulder-mount rigs. The mount itself is different from an arri rosette system, but I'm sure the concept is the same. Or, must the handgrip be attached directly to the body for it to work?

Thanks for your time!

I can answer this as I used the rubbish out of that dial. Iris dial or when menu is selected you can scroll and then press to select. I used this much more than the menu button / dial on the operator side. Handgrip works when not locked to camera. The mount is a little different, however Im sure someone like Zacuto will bring out a grip re-locator.

 

[Jason R. Johnston]

I can answer this as I used the rubbish out of that dial. Iris dial or when menu is selected you can scroll and then press to select. I used this much more than the menu button / dial on the operator side. Handgrip works when not locked to camera. The mount is a little different, however Im sure someone like Zacuto will bring out a grip re-locator.

Thanks, Noel. I can already see an 'EVA1 handgrip mount'-to-'Arri rosette adapter' coming. I certainly see myself snuggling up to the camera, arm wrapped around it to the handgrip for control, even on sticks. It seems right.