EVA1 5.7K CDNG misunderstanding

you are correct, this would kind of kill recording a “Raw” signal. Thanks for thr update.
Cheers
 
OnSet said:
Hi Mitch,
I think I remember asking you about the possibility of 5.7k data being available back at the Angelica intro event in NYC. Based on your response (and this is just my recollection) I had the impression that 5.7k was barely on the radar at that point, with the biggest 'future firmware' goal being the addition of 400I recording. In my mind I figured 5.7k was pretty far off - so I was really surprised that it arrived in the same firmware release as 400I! (My purchase of an EVA1 last December certainly was not with the expectation of the 5.7k output as a feature.)

To Others --
In terms of the currently limited recording options - I hope that the recent comments motivate users to call/email/post their requests directly to their favorite recorder manufacturers, whether Atomos, C-D, VideoDevices, BMD, etc... to let them know that adding the capability to record 5.7k raw is something that will induce you to spend more on their recorders - or upgrade to their next generation recorders that should feature the option.
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We always knew what our own development schedule was for All-I, but couldn’t be sure our partners would match the timeline for RAW support. So I purposefully didn’t want to push that too hard.

And yeah, go ahead and ask the other recorder makers to jump in. We will work with them.
 
I guess I should point out that before supporting EVA1 RAW->ProRes RAW, the Shogun Inferno first supported EVA1 RAW->ProRes & DNX Video, as well as EVA1->CinemaDNG RAW. Atomos currently does not support any compressed form of CinemaDNG, so the support of the EVA1 is as much as the recorder can do. That’s four different types of recording formats from the EVA1 on the same Atomos recorder. Seems like they’re doing everything they can.

BTW, speaking of proprietary formats, isn’t a compressed CinemaDNG just that? If this nonstandard format that exists only in the BMD ecosystem was adopted, it would mean that post was only available in Resolve, and Adobe users would be out of luck. Or am I wrong here? I admit it’s been awhile since I dealt with that.
 
filmguy123 said:
Too many variables in promised future roadmaps. IE, we still haven't seen the supposed GH5 48p mode that was advertised in early 2017 for a future firmware, and 7 months after EVA1 launch still waiting on a hopeful list of firmware update requests that mostly seem pretty basic.
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I must point out that the list of requests are just that: requests. They are not promises made by Panasonic. They have been brought to the attention of our engineering team, but that does not mean that we can and will implement them. Not saying that we won’t, just that we never promised those features and functions.
 
Uncompressed is not the same as raw.

However, a recorder that can handle uncompressed 4K/30p should also be able to handle 5.7K raw, in terms of data management. It would still need to have 6G-SDI and be programmed to accept the raw signal.
 
Just had a shoot yesterday where we used the Sumo to record 5.7K RAW. Everything went smooth and client was happy! 1TB SSD gives you about 1 hour of recording time.

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Mitch Gross said:
I must point out that the list of requests are just that: requests. They are not promises made by Panasonic. They have been brought to the attention of our engineering team, but that does not mean that we can and will implement them. Not saying that we won’t, just that we never promised those features and functions.
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This was not a request, this was promised in Panasonic’s GH5 published firmware roadmap January 2017:

http://43addict.com/2017/01/05/panasonic-gh5-firmware-update-pre-announced/
 
Mitch Gross said:
I must point out that the list of requests are just that: requests. They are not promises made by Panasonic. They have been brought to the attention of our engineering team, but that does not mean that we can and will implement them. Not saying that we won’t, just that we never promised those features and functions.
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the first was not a request, this was promised in Panasonic’s GH5 published firmware roadmap January 2017:

http://43addict.com/2017/01/05/panasonic-gh5-firmware-update-pre-announced/

The EVA1 firmware requests I completely understand as non-promises - Never said they were. Merely requests. BUT the point was that they have been requested and acknowledged over half a year ago, seconded by a number of others, and seem both painfully obvious / overdue as well as easy to implement - even things that some might say are obvious candidates for immediate hot fix - that means nothing. Because here we are 7 months later being reminded that the camera is provided “as is” and that any future hope for features, fixes, etc are merely that: hope. I'm merely affirming the stark reality that one should buy a camera for what it is today only, as no matter how obvious or expected you (or the market) may think a fix is, that is no guarantee... and even IF fixed, the timeline may seem disproportionately long.

PS and yes I am disappointed with how thorough of a list I wrote in December 2017 and how none of those have been implemented, even in the May 31st 2.5 update which I though may contain at least some, since the big push for RAW back in April is complete... and yet, I still can't cycle through zebras and see an on screen indicator of what level it is at, or scroll freely through ISO, or... etc...

Still, much love though! Just saying... :)
 
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For sure! And I know you've got your hands full as well. I will just say, if you were to see to the adding of my Christmas wish-list for the EVA1, I would name my first born child after you*.

*not a promised feature, however, it has been brought to the attention of my significant other for review ;)
 
Run&Gun said:
I think, for the most part, that is the strongest selling point of the camera's 5.7K sensor, that it can give you "true" 4K.

All of these high-res RAW capabilities sound great, but how many people REALLY need the capabilities? Is the work you're doing REALLY that demanding? Or are you just a sloppy shooter and think that it will save you butt in post? Or do you want to just sound cool and say, "Hey I'm shooting RAW"?

I've only shot RAW on my F55 twice. Once for some green screen work for an agency for a movie studio. And once more for Sony for use at a trade show for 4K & HDR on their big CLEDIS display. I'm not arguing that high-res RAW isn't useful or not without advantages, but do you REALLY need it? 4K log is plenty to work with in most cases. And in a lot of those cases, is probably even over-kill.
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Totally agree. I have a Shogun Inferno for my VLT and after many tests where I didn’t see any difference in normal conditions I prefer to shoot with the internal codec which is crazy good. It can be useful for 240fps though if you like the crop mode.
 
The internal codec for most things is great.

I do have a major gripe (in my firmware requests) and that is how poor the HD codec is... 50mbps longgop!!! This is less than GH5. That is "enough" I suppose for 24p work but as soon as you enter 10-bit VFR in HD it gets problematic. Especially for anything with lower light where you need to operating at base ISO 2500 or higher, it really falls apart much quicker than it should.

Now, you can sort of trick this by changing the frequency to 50p and that unlocks 100mbps in HD LongGOP format and then interpret footage in Premiere to get back to 24p with a 50p slow motion... so better... still not great... but it also takes about 30 seconds (yes, I timed myself and went as fast as I could) to swap between 4K 30p and 2K 50p since you have to reset the camera on the frequency change, then drill back in to change frame size, then go back into to re-enable VFR..

which leads me to my next problem, no "scene" presets where it can accomplish multiple steps at once by setting a scene template.

And then, no way to either quickly swap between Base ISO 800/2500 without drilling into menus (can't bind a button), or no way to just freescroll through ISOs with an auto switch to base ISO 2500 at the optimal point (like GH5s) which would be ideal...

All of these combine mean that the EVA1, for a super small/light camera focused on internal codec options and solo ops with its form factor really is lacking when it comes to being quick and easy to work with.

The good news is, these are SUPER easy fixes:

- Panny unlock better HD codecs to allow 100-150 LongGOP in HD, cut out the frequency change step and make VFR easy
- Panny add setting presets for a quick swap to a freqeuncy/frame size/vfr mode/codec all in one press of a button or menu selection
- Panny allow base ISO 800/2500 swap to be bindable to a user button
- Panny enable an "optimal" setting for ISO wheel that switches the base ISO from 800 to 2500 as soon as you reach ISO 1600 (this is almost always preferable to switch here. And If this was really a concern, that *option* could be customized for a user selectable point).

To Norbro's point, oh snap, but he's onto something (and I LOVE the panny pro team and think Mitch is not only an excellent rep, but one of the best product reps for any company and any product line in the market. PERIOD. He's amazing). So hats off to great rep AND a great camera. But there is room for improvement here and honestly some of this stuff is simple.

For example, the official line is the camera has no auto-switch between base ISO mode because it's "not pro enough". That sounds kinda nice, except hat as a pro, unless you have a very odd use case, you ALMOST ALWAYS want to be as close to Base ISO as possible. So at 1600, Base ISO of 2500 is preferable - you should have both better DR (less than 1 stop away from base) *and* a cleaner image (stopped down in ISO) vs iso 1600 at an 800 base. There are unique, rare scenarios in which a user MAY want to be at base 800 to utilize iso 1600, but that option does not dissapear by offering an "optimal" option which would allow someone like myself to rapidly change between ISO 800 and 3200 in very dynamic live event/docu situations.

The GH5/5S line may be from the consumer division, but which one is more pro friendly: a GH5S camera which allows me to change from HD VFR mode to 4K 24p mode in literally 5-7 seconds including my time in the menu, or the EVA1, which to swap aquistion methods requires about 30 seconds of fiddling in the menu and restarting the camera? The GH5 is just flat out faster to accomplish the same thing, and not by a small margin. Or the GH5S, I can roll from ISO 400 to 6400 in a matter of seconds and be at the optimal base (800/5000) and "get the moment" without second thought. EVA1? Stop, pause, menu fiddle. Moment, missed.

Scenario happen just this last week: shooting live performance on a stage under bright lights where I needed base ISO 800, and then into the crowd where people are backlit and hard to see, needed base 2500. The EVA1 made this a royal PIA.

/Long rant over.

Point is: GH line may be consumer, but a little of their DNA injected into the EVA1 ease of use would be a very pro-friendly thing, indeed. The GH5s you can't manually select your base ISO. That's not pro. The EVA1, you *have* to and it slows down your workflow. That's not pro-friendly.
 
I talked with one of the engineers for the EVA1 at Cinegear about a quick swap of 4K 24p 10bit to 4K VFR 60p 8bit via button on side of camera and he seems to think it is possible. Hopefully we will see something in a firmware release.

For the 800/2500 have your tried the native setting for the iso switch?
 
Cool. Let's hope they really focus on fast usability and some of these basic features for the next update.

Yeah on the native ISO switch, but then you don't get granular control. It's native only. So you can't swap between ISO 1250 (base 800) and ISO 3200 (base 2500) quickly, for example. Or, be at base 2500 and then roll upwards to 4000 if it is needed for a challenging shot. It's locked to native 800/2500 only.
 
When on a fast paced shoot, we often go with 2500 and go down to 1000 for outside then up from there inside.

filmguy123 said:
Cool. Let's hope they really focus on fast usability and some of these basic features for the next update.

Yeah on the native ISO switch, but then you don't get granular control. It's native only. So you can't swap between ISO 1250 (base 800) and ISO 3200 (base 2500) quickly, for example. Or, be at base 2500 and then roll upwards to 4000 if it is needed for a challenging shot. It's locked to native 800/2500 only.
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Same, what I am doing now, and not ideal. Because you need the DR most when outside and by stopping down to 1000 from 2500 you are losing a little more than a full stop. But when bumping up from 800 to 1000 you are much closer to the full DR.
 
I was thinking forth and back about switching from the FS7 to the EVA-1. Most of my cons are summarised the "gripe" above. But the truth is none of the cameras in that range (FS5, FS7, BMD Ursa mini, C100/200/300) is a low light king and every one of them has downsides. Every camera has room for improvement in menues. Fact is you get used to the downsides. You have to focus on what's most important for you. [amen]
 
Possibly what's at issue here, is that this is a Cinema camera...designed for narrative work...I've heard people complain about the boot up time of the LT being 20 seconds...for anyone coming up through the time of film cameras, this is so fast compared to waiting for a film mag to be switched out, or grip or lighting or art dept changing something, as to laughable....in order to make this or any Cinema camera suitable for documentary work, some serious work arounds will have to be developed I would imagine...I'm not meaning to be unsympathetic, but if the camera is being used for what it's actually designed for, the time to do what's necessary would just never be an issue!
 
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