Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
First article about the movie hit the web today. The "Brutal As Hell" horror film website printed the whole press release. We're on the front page actually.
-Nate
-Nate
FEATURE: Epitaph: Bread and Salt Feature film
- Thread starter Nathyn
- Start date
El Director
Veteran
Sweet!
El Director
Veteran
Wait, so you are shooting DLSR now? That rocks!
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
Epitaph: Bread and Salt - First Day of Shooting
We shot several scenes today. The images are awesome. We used a beachtek and put a mic through the camera. The sound did suck in some scenes but not all. One channel of audio is just hiss, the other channel is sound + hiss. I got home and ran the audio through FCP and started playing around with it. I muted the hiss channel and used the "deEsser" and both versions of the Low Pass filters. It's now 4:22am and the audio is now more than usable. In some instances the low pass filter alone did the trick and the audio is clearer than ever. I boomed with no pole, just pointing the shotgun at the speaker. Here's a few uncorrected images. To boot.
-Nate
We shot several scenes today. The images are awesome. We used a beachtek and put a mic through the camera. The sound did suck in some scenes but not all. One channel of audio is just hiss, the other channel is sound + hiss. I got home and ran the audio through FCP and started playing around with it. I muted the hiss channel and used the "deEsser" and both versions of the Low Pass filters. It's now 4:22am and the audio is now more than usable. In some instances the low pass filter alone did the trick and the audio is clearer than ever. I boomed with no pole, just pointing the shotgun at the speaker. Here's a few uncorrected images. To boot.
-Nate
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El Director
Veteran
Which cam are these from? Looks much better than your last movie! 
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
Thanks. This is from the 5DM2. That in itself is an improvement, then again even the HG10 would be an improvement. We're also working with a professional DP, Adam Daniels here in Chicago. And I fixed the sound. Check out the edited post. It's totally clear now.
-Nate
-Nate
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Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
This is true and in the hands of the right person it will improve your shooting up to 100%, LOL.
As far as the Red is concerned, honestly I've been telling people to consider if the Red is really needed for their shoots. It's a big toy people love to shoot with and show of, but now that I know we can shoot this way and get the sound and everything working right I'm sold on the 5DM2. The only thing I didn't like was not being able to shoot and get sound, beyond that I'm fine with never shooting on a Red or anything close. I can go to big screen at 1080/24p and still look great.
And I think we can all a agree that we've seen some things on this forum shot on Red and went, "Why? That could've been shot with an HV20 to get that look." LOL. I get the feeling people are shooting with it so they can say it was "shot on Red". What does it add to the story? Depending on where you're renting from, you can buy a 5D for the price of a two day rental and shoot stuff all the time.
-Nate
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jls4
Veteran
Well for me I know a guy with a RED. LOL The RED footage does look better than 5DMK2 or 7D. Honestly you'd be lying to yourself if you thought they looked the same. BUT the 7D and 5D when used by a skilled pro can fool the average person.
For me I wanted the subtle changes of the RED to the 7D. My movie happens in two times. For the present time we'll use the RED for the past we'll use the 7D. It makes a subtle difference that the average poerson sees but doesn't pay much attention to.
The RED footage will be shot -> processed -> then downconverted into 24/1080p. Even then I suspect to get a slightly sharper, more colorful, image with another 1 to 2 stops of lighting contrast.
Then I'll color process the streams differently to aid in the difference of the look.
Do I think you have to have a RED? No, but it's a great way to push a project and it is a buzz word that can work to your advantage. For me it's a great opportunity to learn and my project leans itself to it's use.
For me I wanted the subtle changes of the RED to the 7D. My movie happens in two times. For the present time we'll use the RED for the past we'll use the 7D. It makes a subtle difference that the average poerson sees but doesn't pay much attention to.
The RED footage will be shot -> processed -> then downconverted into 24/1080p. Even then I suspect to get a slightly sharper, more colorful, image with another 1 to 2 stops of lighting contrast.
Then I'll color process the streams differently to aid in the difference of the look.
Do I think you have to have a RED? No, but it's a great way to push a project and it is a buzz word that can work to your advantage. For me it's a great opportunity to learn and my project leans itself to it's use.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
The big problem with the 7D and 5Dm2 is the moire an aliasing. I have shot hundreds of hours on my 7D in a HUGE variety of conditions and I can tell you, if I had the choice between the Red One MX or the 7D/5Dm2 it would be the RED WITHOUT question. But, that is beyond my budget by like x50 times
I can tell you that the biggest problem with the 7D/5Dm2 is that in camera you cannot see the Moire Aliasing when shooting 1080p. I use an external monitor on urban shots with lots of lines in it, and can tell you, there is rainbow ALL over the place in some scenes. I know how to prevent it, but it also means knowing it is there.
Honestly, I could care less about shooting at 4K, and the GH1 requires the GH13 hack which is just too much for me to handle on set dealing with even more problems, so for now, we stick with the 7D till the AF100 comes out which solves a lot of our problems.
I look at the 7D/5dm2 as what is between a $4k+ camera and the sub $1k market like HV30s and stuff. I do love my 7D, but like I said it can be frustrating.
Pertaining to the Beachtek, we have two of them. One that was designed for the 5Dm2 which is HORRIBLE. Has same problems as Nate described. They've discontinued that model. We also have a much smaller one that doesn't provide phantom power and it is great. No hiss at all. You shouldn't have to pass your audio through a de-Esser AT ALL since that really is targeted for plosive symbalance (sp?) sounds (I do a LOT of audio editing).
What model Beachtek are you using?
Now, about those frame grabs, looks great! Really. The blow-out of th backgrounds are just perfect to me. Great job.
I can tell you that the biggest problem with the 7D/5Dm2 is that in camera you cannot see the Moire Aliasing when shooting 1080p. I use an external monitor on urban shots with lots of lines in it, and can tell you, there is rainbow ALL over the place in some scenes. I know how to prevent it, but it also means knowing it is there.
Honestly, I could care less about shooting at 4K, and the GH1 requires the GH13 hack which is just too much for me to handle on set dealing with even more problems, so for now, we stick with the 7D till the AF100 comes out which solves a lot of our problems.
I look at the 7D/5dm2 as what is between a $4k+ camera and the sub $1k market like HV30s and stuff. I do love my 7D, but like I said it can be frustrating.
Pertaining to the Beachtek, we have two of them. One that was designed for the 5Dm2 which is HORRIBLE. Has same problems as Nate described. They've discontinued that model. We also have a much smaller one that doesn't provide phantom power and it is great. No hiss at all. You shouldn't have to pass your audio through a de-Esser AT ALL since that really is targeted for plosive symbalance (sp?) sounds (I do a LOT of audio editing).
What model Beachtek are you using?
Now, about those frame grabs, looks great! Really. The blow-out of th backgrounds are just perfect to me. Great job.
Marlon Ladd
Veteran
Congrats on your first day in the books, Nate! Screen grabs look really good. Keep 'em coming.
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
Not at all, but what I'm saying is we've seen things that were shot on Red that didn't look all that good. In the hands of a bad shooter the Red is just as good as any low budget camera. In the hands of a pro shooter an HDSLR is as good as a Red or anything else, because of the user's skill. I simply question when does it become really worthwhile to shoot Red if you're not going to film?
My point exactly, but when is it more buzz than bang.
Yea, there's a couch in this film that's so loud we had to shoot it, but the pattern is crazy on the cam. Our DP said one time it looked like it was walking. LOL.The big problem with the 7D and 5Dm2 is the moire an aliasing. I have shot hundreds of hours on my 7D in a HUGE variety of conditions and I can tell you, if I had the choice between the Red One MX or the 7D/5Dm2 it would be the RED WITHOUT question. But, that is beyond my budget by like x50 times
The older DXA-2S. Honestly, I think the camera mic may even sound better sometimes. But it's really not the problem some say it is. You mute the channel that's hiss and filter the other channel and that seems to do it. The closer to the mic the better. I've been swapping sound clips around.
Thanks. The guy really knows his stuff. This is his first film. He a photographer, but sets up some great scenes. He's a human dolly too sometimes. LOL.
Thanks, more on the way. There's some BTS stuff upfront on the first page. I'll add some video later.
-Nate
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El Director
Veteran
Which picture profile are you guys using on the 5D? Lookin' good!
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Yeah I have the DXA-2S and I am not happy with it. Same reasons. When the on camera sound was better I knew something was wrong! Luckily we have another one that is superior from them.
Luckily we have another one that is superior from them.
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
You noticed that too huh. People trip on the on camera mic, I'm listening to it going, "But that's not bad and it's clear. Certainly clearer that the shotgun's sound. I'm going to do some more sound test. I'm good either way, but I'd like know the real deal. As if that wasn't bad enough, there's no real way to monitor the sound. It's a blessing this stuff is sounding this way. We turned the beachtek on five and left it there. My only fear was the camera sound dropping out. I can work with bad sound, but "no sound" means ADR.
And we found a new Siren. A professional stunt woman. She's worked with "Babes with Blades" and has tons of stunt fighting training, especially with knives. So now I'm not worried about the Siren fights.
-Nate
And we found a new Siren. A professional stunt woman. She's worked with "Babes with Blades" and has tons of stunt fighting training, especially with knives. So now I'm not worried about the Siren fights.
-Nate
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Yeah, I feel your pain. We are getting ready to start filming our 3 part to our parody and we are already trying to figure out what we are going to do different so we can avoid much more ADR than last time.
Although, we are filming in a HUGE abandoned factory for part of it and there is NO way we can avoid ADR there. WAY too much echo.
Although, we are filming in a HUGE abandoned factory for part of it and there is NO way we can avoid ADR there. WAY too much echo.