EPIC-S (old Scarlet S35) update...Announcement

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Not sure where this talk of 1080p is coming from, or going ... Red has already said that they consider 1080p "a mistake" and when closing that thread, Jannard said that nothing that had been said had changed his mind in any way, and that we should "mark his words" that 1080p was going to be recognized as a mistake.

I took from that, that there will be no 1080p mode in the Scarlet or Epic line, and that if you want to do 1080p, you'll have to do it in post. That's an assumption, but ... well, it seems like a reasonable one, doesn't it?
 
Well again that begs the question, what is a 3k 2/3 inch sensor camera for? 4k television? 4k youtube? 4k Cinema? 3k for 4k.. kinda odd. 1080p, whatever is turns out to be, is widely used right now. I only had a 1080p TV since January. I'm in no hurry for 4k to take over. When it does though I doubt I'll be looking for a 3k camera.

Just saying.
 
What is a 3K bayer for? It's good for resolving 2K. That's better for digital cinema than 1080P. Why is that? Because if your movie happens to to make it to theatrical distribution, and I don't mean film festival projection, then most likely it will either play on a 2K projector, or be shot out onto film prints from 2K cineon files by Arri or MDM digital to film cameras.

1080 permutations are very much for HD TV only. While on occassion source files for theatrical distribution are 1920x1080, it's not the recommended spec, and requires more complicated interpolation to achieve 2k or 4k.

Similarly when 4K Sony projectors are more widespread, and Christie releases their 4K projector, you'll find that you'll get better quality interpolating from a good 2K 10 to 12 bit cineon than from 1920x1080 8 bit (though bit depth is independent of resolution, most cameras that shoot 1920x1080 are 8 bit).

So in that sense Jim Jannard is right. For cinematic theatrical distribution, 1080P doesn't make a whole lot of sense. But who cares if it needs to be interpolated right? It's all in your story, lighting and acting.
 
So the Scarlet is primarily a cinema camera? I'm just asking because I don't know the answer. It doesn't seem to fit in the RED road map, and doesn't seem to fit with what's out there now or what will be out in the future.

edit: if it's made for the cinema then why be 2/3s? Not exactly going to give you the DOF people seems to crave these days. Are we going to see Scarlets with DOF adapters like the EX1 and EX3?
 
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Barry_Green said:
Not sure where this talk of 1080p is coming from, or going ... Red has already said that they consider 1080p "a mistake" and when closing that thread, Jannard said that nothing that had been said had changed his mind in any way, and that we should "mark his words" that 1080p was going to be recognized as a mistake.

I took from that, that there will be no 1080p mode in the Scarlet or Epic line, and that if you want to do 1080p, you'll have to do it in post. That's an assumption, but ... well, it seems like a reasonable one, doesn't it?
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Well, Jim's words on 4k tend to be pretty extreme, and not always terribly helpful. The way I look at it, 35mm film resolves more than 1080p so a true digital replacement is going to need to be higher. But a digital replacement for 16mm doesn't need to be nearly as high, and 3k seems just about right. And besides I wouldn't be doing a 4k scan even if I did shoot on actual 16mm film. ;)

But I know the 1080p RGB was in the features some time ago, and I don't know why that would've changed since the hardware should still be capable of it (the cameras automatically do a high quality debayer and downscale to 1080 for HDMI/HD-SDI) and regardless of Jim's words, Red tends to leave useful features in (i.e. they let you do 2k at higher framerates if you want to).
 
I think the context that is often missing from Jim's posts in talking about 4k and 1080p is that he discusses it in terms of projects that are not limited with regards to budget on what they shoot. Projects that would be shooting film if there were not a digital alternative available to meet their needs. For those folks, he says shooting 1080p is a "mistake". Not that 1080p is a mistake in general... just that it is in terms of being a "suitable replacement for film"... which would include tv shows, movies, etc that have ample budgets, etc....

Though, I could see how folks interpret it differently :)
 
maranfilms said:
I highly doubt they even go through with the 2/3rds fixed lens scarlet. Just doesn't seem like it's even worth the hassles at this point. By the time they get a production line running, I would guess there's going to be better cams by the bigboys that will compete. Just think, we might have 16k on the t2i tonight. lollollol
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Disagree somewhat - The 2/3rds fixed lens has lots of uses especially when shallow DOF is not such a premium. There are many scenarios where it is desirable and the best use will be for 3D on a budget. It will shine in that capacity. Light affordable and syncing two of them will be a doddle.

I also thought to myself - DOF adaptors may come back in fashion with the 2/3 rds Scarlet for some people looking for that asthaetic. I have even thought of that..........It becomes the most modular RED camera because it is so versatile. Use it bare, on DOF adaptor, take stills, RAW video ....highly desirable to me


I think the T2i thing was a hoax.

:happy:
 
metalalien said:
The F3 I believe has a 3.5 chip so maybe it will all work the same. The NXcam will have that same chip and we already know the F3 is amazing in low light. That doesn't mean much right now through Sony could very well cripple the NX to protect sales of the F3. I hope not though.
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With Sony you only get a video encoded 1080p output. They dictate how the image is processed in camera and limit your ability to creatively deal with it in post. The F3 to me characteristically looks like every other Sony video camera except with 35mm DOF. It isn't bad, it just is what it is.
It is like the difference between grading raw stills from a DSLR in something like Lightroom or shooting Jpegs with most of your grading options already baked into the image.
With Redcode Raw the only things that directly affect the recorded image data are light, aperture, frame rate, and shutter speed/angle, just like film. Everything else is meta data that is non-destructively applied to the image data. I love this. It is much more of a sophisticated creative photographer's instrument than a conventional encoded video camera can ever be.
 
metalalien said:
So the Scarlet is primarily a cinema camera? I'm just asking because I don't know the answer. It doesn't seem to fit in the RED road map, and doesn't seem to fit with what's out there now or what will be out in the future.

edit: if it's made for the cinema then why be 2/3s? Not exactly going to give you the DOF people seems to crave these days. Are we going to see Scarlets with DOF adapters like the EX1 and EX3?
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Consider it the equivalent of 16mm film as a format. It is capable of a very useful range of creative DOF control and much more forgiving of critical focus in fast moving action situations. Virtually all of the live action motion capture for 3D movies these days is done on 2/3" systems. It is a very robust and useful format.

The native aspect ratio of all of Red's sensors conforms to the full 1.89:1 digital cinema wide screen format. 3k Scarlet has the resolution necessary to fully resolve to 2k digital cinema and 2k 2.40:1 scope formats without compromise.
 
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Can you say 3D, that is the market for the 2/3, and the fixed would actually be ideal as it would be matched and controlled by software. I just saw the Trailer for "Pirates of the Caribbean 4" and it looked absolutely ridiculous with shallow dof. You need deep focus to sell live action 3D.
 
Add 1 half year to 2 years to anything Red time frame before ordinary folks like u n me can actually purchase one. I dont even know wht the rules were, if u red 1 owner from last blood line XYZ , took option 6 with combo A u get 12% discount and free red coffee mug, and free UPS 2nd day air.....etc. Just wake me up when I can actually pay and buy the thing.
 
Has anybody noticed they pulled the "Other Cameras...." thread from Recon, I'm guessing it had something to do with all the talk of patents and legal stuff.
 
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Joe Walker said:
Has anybody noticed they pulled the "Other Cameras...." thread from Recon, I'm guessing it had something to do with all the talk of patents and legal stuff.
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Yes and the thread where Jim was bragging about getting a patent for redcode. Unless I am missing it they are both gone.
 
Even if the Epic S has half the specs of the Epic X, I'm curious as to why Jim's gotten so "emotional" about all the discussion of these other cameras. The past three days has been very odd to say the least.
 
I'm glad they pulled the "other cameras" article. Nothing is worse than a company (or in this case, a billionaire) belittling other companies because they are doing things differently.

RED have great tech specs, but lack production and distribution. Sony etc are more conservative with their tech, but are 100% solid on the business of business. Neither are perfect and Jannard should be embarresed when he mocks the "good enough" cameras.
 
Joe Walker said:
Even if the Epic S has half the specs of the Epic X, I'm curious as to why Jim's gotten so "emotional" about all the discussion of these other cameras. The past three days has been very odd to say the least.
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I think Jim is very passionate about his cameras and sometimes goes a little overboard.
 
henryolonga said:
Disagree somewhat - The 2/3rds fixed lens has lots of uses especially when shallow DOF is not such a premium. There are many scenarios where it is desirable and the best use will be for 3D on a budget. It will shine in that capacity. Light affordable and syncing two of them will be a doddle.

I also thought to myself - DOF adaptors may come back in fashion with the 2/3 rds Scarlet for some people looking for that asthaetic. I have even thought of that..........It becomes the most modular RED camera because it is so versatile. Use it bare, on DOF adaptor, take stills, RAW video ....highly desirable to me


I think the T2i thing was a hoax.

:happy:
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To be honest Henry, I too have thought about using the scarlet with a dof adapter, I love the organic look thje ground glass produces. Even moreso than any dslr available at this time. It would definetly be an option for me as well if it ever gets made. Im just thinking in terms of public view on 2/3rds chips at this point. Not to mention he said he was going to use the same facility to manufacture the Epic light, as he would the standard epic. Although he originaly thought the scarlet could be built overseas. So yeah, There could still be a market for it, but chances are if they went with a scarlet fixed lens with a s35 mm sensor, I think it would do better in terms of overall sales.

And yes, I do know the t2i 16k was a hoax, and a very funny one at that.:happy:
 
I'm curious as to why so many Red for lack of a better word haters, get so involved in all of this, Jim I can understand this is his baby he has put his blood sweat and tears into this. I would be upset too if I had some immature fools posting nonsense and misinformation, and attacking me personally while all I'm trying to do is improve the acquisition tools for their industry, don't like his style and attitude fine ignore it(the things that bug me I do not follow and attack I ignore them..... well except for pointless camera and tech haters....damn).

some people these days don't know where they get this attitude, be respectful, be realistic, and try not to make assumptions or jump to conclusions when talking about another persons life or business while on the internet just how I see it but who's gonna listen to me.

To a better year of message boards, where people stop pointlessly attacking others, resorting to ad hominem, and actually help each other to work towards common goals...... or it could just be the slow downhill slide to the ... APOCOLYPSE 2012 ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

"children and young people should be seen not herd until they have actual knowledge in the field to contribute and help and not just spread misconceptions and hate."
-some guy

I'm out
 
I totally agree, can we please have more of the Dvxuser circa 2005-06 around here. Not the 2008-2010 whining and attacking.
 
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