effect on HVX resale

U

USLatin

Panamaniac
I've looked a bit here and there, then searched and it doesn't surprise me that I haven't found a post about it.
First of all there is everyone is freaking about the specs, so on and so forth. Then on top of it the price ranges are far. But...

This is such a ridiculously amazing thing that is being created here that companies and individuals that can... well, they will. People will take it out of Jr.'s college fund or like Jarred initially said, sell a kidney. I mean...won't all digital cameras feel the effect of something this capable showing up in the market? Film too, but they'll have to watch the first stunningly lit feature first, then they'll eat their pride and finally start looking our way every so often.

Yes boss, I know it is more than three times the cost, but we can... well we can do anything with it.
No sweetie, I will make it back before he graduates. Yes, dear, I know he is a senior, but I'll have it all back way before and that's why I didn't have to ask.


Laugh at me if appropriate, but should I worry about how well the HVX will hold it's value?
I was banking on a similar depreciation to the DVX's
 
I can forsee RED having quite an impact on cameras priced well above it and yet have much inferior specs. I don't think that RED will have as big an impact on the cameras that cost several thousands less; they are in a different market and the feature set is comparable to their cost.
 
USLatinContent said:
Laugh at me if appropriate, but should I worry about how well the HVX will hold it's value?
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Uhh..nope. Have you checked the specs? Red is in a totally different league. I would be more worried about how the higher priced cams like the Varicam and Sony F900's hold their value.

I don't think it's good to worry about how well a camera holds its value. If you're buying for business, you should be able to pay off the camera through work, and you have to expect technology to depreciate over time. That's just reality.
 
Yes, I am accounting for depreciation. I also understand Red is on a different league. I was referring to those who didn't have enough of an incentive in the features offered by the next pricing sector up from the HVX prior to Red. Since they now have a Herculean carrot dangling in front of their faces I started wondering how many people will leap now who otherwise wouldn't have. My interest was on the effect over the workforce make which could be credited to the development this camera at this point in time. A situation similar to the all the HVX users who were happy with their DVX but one day they couldn't help notice that there was a step worth taking.
 
I think Red will definitely have some impact here. It's not actually that far from the price of an HVX + a 35mm adaptor; a lot of people can afford that extra jump, now that there's an amazing value there. I know we were looking at the HVX before Red came along, and our interest in it basically vanished the day Red announced its pricing. I don't think we're alone; the fact that Red and the HVX are in the same market (even if they're not in same league in terms of technical specs) is pretty neatly demonstrated just by how much attention it has gotten on this board, which was previously mostly dedicated to prosumer cameras.

Just how much effect there will be on the value of the HVX is hard to say. How many people buy them for serious videography and/or feature production vs. as high-end consumer camcorders? The HVX will probably loose a good number of sales to Red in the former market, but practically none in the latter.

Although, it is worth remembering Red isn't on the market yet, and supply will probably be constrained for many months. Some people are going to want a camera they can shoot with immediately, and the HVX will still be a respectable choice.
 
hvx value intact

hvx value intact

anyone looking for a used (you did say resale, right?) hvx would never consider a red. it's overkill in every way. you can't compare a used $3000-$4000 dvcpro camcorder to a brand new $17.5k 4k beast (add $5-$10k for lens). like any amateur, they'll pause on their hvx purchase for a moment until they realize that not only will they need to invest $25k but they need to invest in a new non-linear system and drive space just to accomodate 4k editing. the only guys who might jump onto red instead of hvx are guys with a set of valuable primes perfect for red. and guys like that can probably afford to buy both anyway.
 
It doesn't have to be the exact same people looking at Red and at used HVXs, for HVX resale value to drop. Some of the people who bought new HVX packages will now be looking to sell them to upgrade to Red; putting a bunch more used HVXs on the market is likely to push the price down a bit.
 
i'll sell an hvx200 for an hvx300

i'll sell an hvx200 for an hvx300

Chris Kenny said:
It doesn't have to be the exact same people looking at Red and at used HVXs, for HVX resale value to drop. Some of the people who bought new HVX packages will now be looking to sell them to upgrade to Red; putting a bunch more used HVXs on the market is likely to push the price down a bit.
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i suppose you have a point for those who've invested in expensive lens adapter kits. i own an hvx200 and have a red on order. i never even considered selling my hvx to make room for red. i don't see any overlap there. hvx is a great one handed little 1080p cam. however, i might sell my hvx200 when panasonic introduces the "hvx300". same price point, smaller form factor and improved features.
 
I'm about to buy an HVX even though I'll be purchasing a RED. Why? Because I need something to shoot with in the meantime.
 
I have a lot of respect for the HVX, having been one of the very first guys to do a magazine article review of it earlier this year. I have stock footage from the HVX on the market. To assume that the HVX is only used as a step-up camera for former DVX shooters is not accurate. The HVX has and is being used by many longtime cinema and television pros for certain projects. It is a very capable camera that is producing some excellent results in the hands of some talented and experienced shooters.

RED One is a completely different animal than the HVX. The many differences should be readily apparent to anyone who analyzes the tech specs of both cameras and their resultant potential uses. If someone has enough capital to own both cameras, that's an option. The HVX would be used for projects where camera risk, deep DOF, and a fixed lens are not a hindrance or liability. The RED One would be used for all projects above that. A 2-camera quiver consisting of an HVX and a RED One could be an excellent quiver.

That said, if someone only has enough capital to have one camera system, needs removable lenses, needs 35mm DOF, has access to high end lenses, needs maximum scalability and flexibility in their camera system, and does projects where a high-end camera is expected, then RED One is the obvious choice over the HVX, or for that matter IMO, any other camera system on the market. IMO RED One will have a moderate and fairly limited impact on HVX sales, but a more significant impact on sales of many removable lens digital cinema and HD cameras. Those ripples of impact have already started, but should increase geometrically after RED One begins to ship next year.

In summary, I have a lot of respect for the HVX and its capabilities, I've used it a fair amount with good results, and it will continue to be used by those shooters, and on those projects I described above. That said, RED One is in a whole different league, has specs that dictate a ton of flexibility and scalability in usage, is already demonstrating excellent footage and frames (IBC up to last night's), and looks like it can be used in a broad range of cine-style and ENG/EFP style productions, depending on how it is lensed and accessorized.
 
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I have to say I was going to buy the HVX, but then RED announced it's prices, and I chose to wait. I still can't afford a RED now, but there's no way in heaven I'm spending my money on an HVX right now. Of course, if I had money to make that "required" an HVX right now, things would be different...
 
I, for one, love my DVX, and was very interested in the HVX for use in my next feature film. However, since RED showed up, I've completely lost interest in anything else. And for my purposes, the price difference is not that big, and is certainly justifiable.

An HVX with P2 cards and accessories would come out to around $7,000 - $8,000. A basic RED camera package with Nikon 35mm still lens, RED-Drive, and battery would be around $19,000 - $20,000. Sure, it's twice as much. But in the overall budget of the film, I can raise an extra $12k in order to get a picture quality that rivals (and possibly outperforms) the freakin' Panavision GENESIS!

And, no, it won't take a super expensive state-of-the-art editing system for me to cut the footage. That's what a 480p offline is for. I can use my 3 year old PowerMac, cut the 480p version as fast as lightning, and then make a DVD to show distributors. If it gets interest, we'll do an online at 2K for film-out or HD-DVD / Blu-Ray / HDTV.

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case, the arrival of RED completely obliterated any interest I had in the HVX (capable as I'm sure it is) or in any other camera, period. The only way I would buy one now would be if it dropped in price significantly. And even then, I'd only get it for the backstage footage, not for the main feature.
 
best 2nd cam???

best 2nd cam???

I agree with Gibby that the HVX sits as a great complimentary/2nd camera to RED. The DVCPRO HD codec is well regarded and outputting your 4K images from REDCINE in 1080p DVCPRO HD will allow you to easily mix the two.

I would guess this would also provide a great final output codec as well, if you weren't planning to go to film.

Any other opinions on what a good cheaper complimentary camera would be?

I have a RED reservation but will definately require a 2nd smaller, simpler camera to grab when it's the right tool for a particular job.
I'm looking at prices on the HVX now - (would love to hear of any HVX300 rumours :beer: )
 
Like Chris K. said, the price of an HVX + good lens adapter and other goodies isn't THAT far from the Red's starting point. But Wigby might be right in that if you can afford a Red you wouldn't be looking for a used HVX... why the hassle, just spend a grand more and u have a new one... unless you need it for a one time thing or something like that and you didn't care much. So there would be an other new HVX that could eventually be sold if it starts to accumulate dust inflating supply. But there is still value in it being more expendable while delivering great quality with a great workflow...

I liked jrv's point about 480p on Red for a shopping DVD.

Now what I'm thinking is that everyone will have to develop an answer to this camera now. For Pana, would this be the UVX (U for ultra high def)? :beer: But when? UNLESS DVXUSER moderators have been secretly been helping them develop it for months now and it will come out before x-mas!!!!!!!!!! :grin:
 
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