DVXuser.com exclusive hands on with the HVX200

Hi,

If it were me working on set all day I would first ingest to my laptop and move it to a hard drive. I would then make a clone of that hard drive so that I would have a back-up in case of worst case scenario. Granted this workflow would not work in all situations but in the filmmaker's scenario it would fit more often than not. Point is, once you have made the decision that P2 is for you, along with that decision comes the defining of the workflow decisions and how do you archive decisions. Both need to be planned.

Hope that helps,

Jan
 
Ok....when I speak my mind, I'm not trying to be difficult or disagree and crap on all the suggestions put out there; but this added part of the work flow assumes I have cash, the time and the person to help me dump the data. Look, I'm just as excited to have the nice folks at Panasonic create such an aw-some camera with the capability to shoot true HD at such an amazing price. But on the flip side , when I have to do a doc with one other person who happens to be the director, it's difficult to execute these tasks alone. Maybe I need to just rent a varicam for the higher end projects and stick with the 100a for the ones who can't afford it. Also, it might be noted too how production companies and post houses will embrace this technology too. This workflow has to be easy for a basic production company to deal with or it becomes to much trouble then it's worth. Thank you Jan, Barry, Jarred and all the others for your posts.

Steve
 
Hi, there. I am new to the forum.

There has been some online discussion about the following article:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/Masked-Engineer/f_mario_orazio-08.17.05.shtml

The author states that the HDV suffer from diffraction because of their small chips, so that these cameras are not able to deliver the 1080 lines of resolution with the iris smaller than F5,5. He assures that the HVX200 will have the same problem.

I am pretty worried about that since I was thinking in acquiring one of these cams. I wonder as well why any frame grabs haven't been made public yet.

Someone I know assures that he was able to test the camera a couple of months ago and that the image quality isn't much better than the Sony's HDV. He may be lying since he bought in its day some HDV for rent.

I don't know, has anyone some info on this?

Rodrigo
 
No one has tested the camera. As far as resolution is concerned, my thought is does the picture wow you or not. If the picture is gorgeous, no one is going to be standing around trying to measure your resolution. Much of the engineering side is engineering and frankly that isn't necesarily what sells stories. Pictures sell stories. If the camera makes a nice picture and it looks great, so what if some engineer has some conjecture that whatever whatever.

I would take to heart that what the masked engineer is really trying to say and that is if you think you are going to get 2/3" performance out of a 1/3" chip set, think again, laws of physics cannot be denied. I say onto that, can the picture be pleaseing and offer a wow factor. Yes it can. Look at what the little DVX does up against its big brother the SDX.

So relax until you can see the picture and then you can decide for yourself.

Best,

Jan
 
That's what I am waiting for. For some nice big fat frame grabs.

I am working right now with a Sony Z1E and I must confess that the pic quality did disappoint me big time when I first got it in my editing system. The small latitude, the smearing in the shadow areas and the lens aberrations were perfectly noticeable.

Jan, when do you think that some frame grabs of the HVX200 will be available? Maybe mid-September?

Thx for everything,
Rodrigo
 
pal, NTSC and storage capacity

pal, NTSC and storage capacity

I´m new to this forum and found it very useful. I´m about to buy a new camcorder, and. I´ve read the article, and several other articles in other magazines (The article in Monthly Studio edition 06/05 is quite similar to the one posted by Jarred and Barry), and one of the questions I have is. Will this camera be 50i and 60i switchable (as in PAL or NTSC) in SD mode as the Z1 from sony? If not, the pal version will still be able to record 24,25,30p and all the in-betweens in HD? Will it be possible to record 720p directly to a Firestore, (an 80gb firestore will theoretically save 80 minutes of DVCPRO HD), or it should be recorded first to a P2 card and then downloaded to the firestore?
Thanks
 
I don't believe it will be 50i/60i switchable; they've mentioned that there will be different models for the different territories.

The US model will shoot 24p/30p/60i/60p, the European/Oceanic model will shoot 25p/50p/50i.

There will be a version of the Firestore made specifically for this camera that will let you directly record 720p and 1080p (and all other modes) directly on it.

If you have a P2 card, you can record onto it, and then download to any USB2 hard disk (i.e., it doesn't have to be a firestore).
 
Hello all, my name is Frank and I'm new to this board.

While I'm sure many questions have been answered at some point, I'm not quite sure these subjects have been addressed yet. I've read until I feel like my eyes are going to bleed, and I'm still a little confused. Bear with me, as I've summarized my major questions at the end of this post.

My background is that I'm directing a film in the Spring and I really want to take advantage of the HVX200's HD shooting capability. And that's the first thing right there. Does the HVX shoot true 1080 at 24p? If this is true, I'm assuming that it adds a 2:3:3:2 pulldown cadence that I can easily remove with a program like DVfilmmaker, which I believe will now support the HVX200. First things first though, is it true 24p at 1080? I've read on some posts that this format stretches the image back out to 1920x1080 once it's outputted for viewing. This is fine, as it's obviously still much better than HDV, but I just want to know, once-and-for-all, to be positive.

I understand that I will definitely need to off-load the footage in the field, but I hear all this stuff about being able to output it through the camera's USB 2.0 port. Is this possible while shooting? Or can it only do this while not recording, in order to offload the P2 cards?

Finally, the reason I'm so confused, is because I've read confllicting throughputs for DVCPRO HD. At HD for Indies, I don't remember exact numbers, but I believe it was significantly higher for this format than I've seen posted on here. So, can I really offload and edit from the same G-Tech 500 GB firewire 800 drive?

Honestly, someone just walk me through the process once I pull the card from the camera. I have the card, I have a brand new 15" powerbook with 1 Gig of ram, and the card slot. Can I just put the card in the slot and dump it to the G-Tech drive or the onboard drives? Are the throughputs fast enough for dumping AND editing? I know I can back-up some other way, but I'm talking about something to edit from.

Please, if anyone is reading this and willing to answer, just bear with me as I need to know:
1) Does it record in true 1080 at 24p, and does it use a 2:3:3:2 cadence that I can remove?
2) Can it record straight out to a hard drive via the USB 2.0 port, and exactly what drive would work with this? (the cheapest) Can this be done both with AND/OR without the P2 cards installed and recording?
3) If not using the USB 2.0 port, can I expect my Powerbook(it has the card slot) and an attached G-Tech firewire 800 hard drive to be able to be used for both dumping in the field and editing? Can this system handle the DVCPRO HD throughput? How about the internal system drive?
4) Lastly, is there anyway to output or downconvert the image from A POWERBOOK out to either an HD or SD video monitor? I know the BMD Decklink card is needed for a Tower, but what about for a laptop? Is this even possible or do you have to settle for the screen and any attached computer monitors?

If anyone can help, I'd greatly appreciate it, as I'm just attempting to keep my equipment costs as low as possible without sacrificing quality and a reasonable editing situation.
 
These are mostly questions that we don't have the answers to yet.. hopefully they will be answed at IBC next week.

- Mikko.
 
Yeah, I figured a lot of those questions may not yet have complete answers. However, is it possible to output and/or downconvert the signals from a powerbook? I'm sure that's something somebody can answer. I'd honestly be happy, at this point, to get an answer to just one question. I have plenty of time to answer the rest, but it's sort of hard to contain the excitement and it's like you just want to know exactly what you're going to be doing when the time comes. Then it's also a matter of budgeting.

Anyway, thanks for letting me know I'm not just confused. And I'm thinking that it's not possible with the powerbook, but maybe I'm wrong. Anyone know of a solution for outputting to an SD or HD video monitor from a Powerbook?
 
You can output to a SD monitor from a Powerbook or any PC notebook for that matter using a device such as the AVDC-100 or 300. Alternatively Sony have a range of monitors that you can fit firewire cards to, mind you, you'll buy the same monitor without that option card, the A<->D converter and probably another Powerbook for less.

Your other option is a PC laptop running DV Rack form Serious Magic, that gives you heaps of goodies as well as a monitor, there's also now a version to support HDV.
 
I'm diggin this camera so far but I'm concerned with the cost of recording. The P2 cards are way out of my price range and I guess if I want to shoot on HD, I have to use those expensive $125 tapes.

I figure the whole purpose of this camera is to produce amazing images, but the cost in the long run seems a bit high. $6000 isn't terrible for the camera itself, but the cost of tapes and storage could become an issue.

Any ideas on how to make the most of this camera at a reasonable cost?
 
Abaddon said:
Any ideas on how to make the most of this camera at a reasonable cost?
Click to expand...

That all depends on what you consider a reasonable cost to be able to shoot DVCProHD footage with variable frame rates.

Keep in mind, before the HVX your only option was a $60,000+ Varicam.

The HVX costs 1/10th of that price.
You could get the forthcoming Firestore drive for under $2000.


I'm a bit confused as to why you mentioned shooting onto $125 tapes if you wanted to shoot HD. Part of the attraction to the HVX for me is getting tape (and proprietary decks) out of the equation all together.
 
Does it record in true 1080 at 24p?

Probabaly not, considering the Varicam doesn't use native 1080 resolution to achieve it's 1080i (as far as I know).

Details aren't out yet, but my guess is that best case scenario it will have 1280x720, worse case scenario 960x720. Just a guess mind you, we won't know for sure until the details are released from Panasonic.

and does it use a 2:3:3:2 cadence that I can remove?

Jan from Panasonic has said that the HVX will shoot it's 24P (in 1080 and 480) in the same way the DVX achieve's it's 24P, which means it will have a cadence you can easily remove. By the way, there is no need to use DVFilmmaker is you're using FCP.
Just capture your footage using the 24pAdvanced setting.

OR, even better, shoot 720P24 using P2 cards and you will only record 24fps, no pulldown added. This will save card space and any pulldown issues in post.


Can it record straight out to a hard drive via the USB 2.0 port, and exactly what drive would work with this? (the cheapest) Can this be done both with AND/OR without the P2 cards installed and recording?

It can't record out to ANY drive, but it will be able to record to an "Intelligent" drive.
Firestore has already stated they will have a hard drive recording unit for the HVX by March of next year. It will cost under $2K (not sure on the size).

I'm almost positive the USB port is going to be used for file transfer only, not for streaming the signal. The firestore device will probably be hooking up via the FireWire port instead.


can I expect my Powerbook(it has the card slot) and an attached G-Tech firewire 800 hard drive to be able to be used for both dumping in the field and editing? Can this system handle the DVCPRO HD throughput? How about the internal system drive?

DVCProHD is 100Mb/s at the highest.
Any device that can handle 100Mb/s will be able to take it.
So, as long as your drives have a sustained write speed of over 100Mb/s (or 12.5MB/s) you should be fine.


Lastly, is there anyway to output or downconvert the image from A POWERBOOK out to either an HD or SD video monitor? I know the BMD Decklink card is needed for a Tower, but what about for a laptop? Is this even possible or do you have to settle for the screen and any attached computer monitors?

I assume you're asking this because you want to monitor the image while you're editing. You may be able to use the camera itself by hooking the laptop up through firewire, and then hooking up the component outputs of the camera to your monitor.

Not sure if that will work though, you'll have to wait for the details on monitoring options from panasonic.


Hope this helped.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
That all depends on what you consider a reasonable cost to be able to shoot DVCProHD footage with variable frame rates.

Keep in mind, before the HVX your only option was a $60,000+ Varicam.

The HVX costs 1/10th of that price.
You could get the forthcoming Firestore drive for under $2000.


I'm a bit confused as to why you mentioned shooting onto $125 tapes if you wanted to shoot HD. Part of the attraction to the HVX for me is getting tape (and proprietary decks) out of the equation all together.
Click to expand...

I guess with the Firestore drive it wouldn't be so bad, just a bit cumbersome. Too bad they couldn't make the camera with the drive built in.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
It can't record out to ANY drive, but it will be able to record to an "Intelligent" drive.
Firestore has already stated they will have a hard drive recording unit for the HVX by March of next year. It will cost under $2K (not sure on the size).

I'm almost positive the USB port is going to be used for file transfer only, not for streaming the signal. The firestore device will probably be hooking up via the FireWire port instead.
Click to expand...

But can't you use the firewire in the camera and send the signal directly into a Focus Enhancement FS-4 Firestore drive?

What's the difference between that and what's coming out in March?
 
Abaddon said:
Too bad they couldn't make the camera with the drive built in.
Click to expand...
Well, of course they could have. But in their view it wasn't nearly reliable enough to serve as a professional production system. At the NAB DVXUser unveiling, Jan of Panasonic addressed that very thing -- she said that they started from the ground up, and they considered all methods: hard disk, optical disk, and solid state. They determined that hard disks just weren't reliable enough on their own -- the susceptibility to vibration, shock, heat, cold, all that stuff -- they weren't comfortable using a hard disk solution. I guess if someone like Focus wants to take the risk and make a hard disk recorder, that's okay with them, but they weren't comfortable with it. And they felt Optical wasn't reliable enough and was too slow (but she acknowledged that Sony appears to have solved the reliability questions that they had). So in their view, solid state was the only rock-solid reliable high-performance way to go.

So yes, of course they could have built it with a hard disk, they just didn't feel that was the right choice.
 
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