DVXfest entry THE SUNSHINE LIST banned/removed from Vimeo (too hardcore)

GoodLuck

GoodLuck

Well-known member
Dear Good Luck Pictures:

Your video 'The Sunshine List (5 minute short film)(10330523)' has been removed for violating the Upload Rules of Vimeo.com:
Vimeo does not allow pornography or sexually explicit material.

If you believe this was an error, please reply to this email in a civil manner with your reasoning ("I see other people do it" is not a valid reason).

Regards,
Vimeo

----------------------------------

My response to Vimeo...

Please stop billing me for the PLUS account right now. I love how people like you advocate violence but then find any form of sex shown to be wrong. Yes, lets continue watching people getting their heads blown off and lets continue with the Vimeo guns, drugs and abusive trash videos but if someone dares show someone having sex in a positive light, let's go ahead and take that video down. I'm not anti-violence, I just think sex/love related stuff really gets this negative stigma over hate/violence as if the sex/love is wrong. You guys are just further perpetuating this outdated thinking and censorship.

There was not one piece of nudity in the short. I had her wear a bra the entire time and covered everything up because I knew it would be hard to show something like that online if the bra came off and I took a lot of criticism for doing so but apparently that's even not enough. You have other videos on there showing a guy peeling underwear off a woman's naked body. You have nipples shown in other videos and here I have no nudity in a sex scene and it's removed. What does that show about the progress we've made as filmmakers if we censor non-nude sex scenes. I mean seriously, what's the point of even shooting a sex scene in a short film then. We might as well just not is what you're saying or it better be so brief like it never even happened.

That is my rant, I felt it needed to be said.
 
Of course minutes after it's deleted, someone I sent the link to replies back...

"tried to watch it, but it says it was deleted."
 
I've not watched the YouTube link yet, but I have to side with Vimeo on this one for now no matter how justified the removal was within greater context.

They clearly ask for appeals to be submitted in a civil manner. You may have some valid citations and comparisons as reason to put the video back up, but the wording (the written attitude) comes across as curt... pointed... arrogant. Skipping over respectful negotiation and moving straight to heated rant is not going to fix anything. And, if anything, it will only reinforce Vimeo's policy. At the very least, it will put them immediately on the defensive, making them less likely to work with you.

If this had come at the end of a string of email exchanges with Vimeo, and the email exchange had warranted such a response, maybe I'd have some sympathy. Yes, it is frustrating when an Internet-based entity flexes its muscle in enforcing policy, but peaceful conversation is the only way to ensure that both parties walk away satisfied(ish).
 
there is not really anything you can do here, vimeo has every right to take down your film if they deem it sexually explicit. my advice to you is get your own website to put your films on.
 
You have other videos on there showing a guy peeling underwear off a woman's naked body. You have nipples shown in other videos and here
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Links please :D





You should do another edit with little black 'censored' boxes over.......well.....anything really because there's no nudity. But instead of the word 'censored' you should put on clips of all the other violent 'safe' videos up on their site. Big black box with someone getting their head blown off for instance.
 
C2V said:
I've not watched the YouTube link yet, but I have to side with Vimeo on this one for now no matter how justified the removal was within greater context.

They clearly ask for appeals to be submitted in a civil manner. You may have some valid citations and comparisons as reason to put the video back up, but the wording (the written attitude) comes across as curt... pointed... arrogant. Skipping over respectful negotiation and moving straight to heated rant is not going to fix anything. And, if anything, it will only reinforce Vimeo's policy. At the very least, it will put them immediately on the defensive, making them less likely to work with you.

If this had come at the end of a string of email exchanges with Vimeo, and the email exchange had warranted such a response, maybe I'd have some sympathy. Yes, it is frustrating when an Internet-based entity flexes its muscle in enforcing policy, but peaceful conversation is the only way to ensure that both parties walk away satisfied(ish).
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After retyping it a few times, that was my watered down nice version. How would you have worded it?

ugafan said:
there is not really anything you can do here, vimeo has every right to take down your film if they deem it sexually explicit. my advice to you is get your own website to put your films on.
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I know, and that is my point. There really is no negotiating with them so you might as well at least tell them what you think about it, they are going to do whatever they want and it's their right to do so because it's their website. However they will definitely hear my thoughts on it.
 
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kidwoo said:
Links please :D
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I thought about linking them to those vids and posting them up but I'd just be selling out those filmmakers who could end up getting their vids taken down too. If you search you'll find them.

kidwoo said:
You should do another edit with little black 'censored' boxes over.......well.....anything really because there's no nudity. But instead of the word 'censored' you should put on clips of all the other violent 'safe' videos up on their site. Big black box with someone getting their head blown off for instance.
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That's a funny idea :Drogar-Happy(DBG):
 
i feel you, that is certainly frustrating. i also agree with your point, violence vs sex. i saw your short, it was not "porn" by any means so i think them banning the short is sort of lame. it's censorship of art.
 
Defcon said:
i feel you, that is certainly frustrating. i also agree with your point, violence vs sex. i saw your short, it was not "porn" by any means so i think them banning the short is sort of lame. it's censorship of art.
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Hey thanks Defcon for understanding. It's hard enough hearing it's removed but then to hear other people criticize you for getting upset about it. At least give me that, let me get upset, lol.

Thanks man.
 
GoodLuck said:
After retyping it a few times, that was my watered down nice version. How would you have worded it?
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Terms like "you people" and "you guys are just ____" and "I mean seriously" are automatically offensive. That goes doubly for Internet forums and email, where emotion does not carry at all with typed text. And no, emoticons don't help.

While there's likely not much you can do, the fact that Vimeo is up front about receiving emails on removal issues says that they are, at least, willing to consider an appeal from the film maker. To keep them on your side, start with a little contrition.

Personally, I would have approached it with something like:

"Dear Vimeo Staff,

I am writing to you regarding the removal of my video #10330523, a short film entitled "The Sunshine List." I was a bit surprised to see that it was removed for inappropriate sexual content.

As this short film was intended for Internet distribution across multiple forums, I made every effort to ensure that no nudity was portrayed in this film and that the lives of the characters were tastefully portrayed. So I am not entirely sure what criteria this film did or did not meet that warranted its removal.

It is also difficult to determine appropriate lines of content as there are many videos within the Vimeo community that display rather obvious nudity, and others that portray graphic and extreme violence.

Please know that I respect the Vimeo community as a sharing space for film makers and content creators, and I value the services you offer to independent film. I would like some further clarification as to why this video was removed, and perhaps some reconsideration in that removal.

If nothing else, it will help me to keep further productions intended for Vimeo to be within the guidelines of the community.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,
XXXX XXXXXXX"

Again, you may not get what you want, but it does open discussion with the Vimeo staff in a way that they would take into serious consideration. This type of communication, by the way, is crucial in so many other instances. Can you imagine the repercussions if a job applicant were to send a letter similar to the email you sent Vimeo, to every potential employer who turned him/her down despite an impressive resumé? That person would eventually have a reputation that preceded the application and resumé.

On a semi-related note, now that I am home (read: no longer in the office), I clicked on the YouTube link and got the warning that it has been flagged by the YouTube community as sexually inappropriate and that I must log in to view.
 
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I watched your film on Youtube and enjoyed it, however I think there's a way of dealing with situations like this.

Starting the email with, "Please stop the billing for my PLUS account right now..." is a terrible way to start. As already stated, that puts Vimeo on the defensive. As already mentioned, they clearly asked you NOT to talk about other videos on there and compare.

What you should have done in this case, was clearly explain your case - start off with something like:

"Dear Vimeo,

I understand your concern for the viewers on your website. As a filmmaker, however I think you should take my artistic choices under consideration as well. Those shots were carefully planned, to ensure that the actress was covered up (implied, but no actual nudity).

Maybe we can come to a compromise here, where I am allowed to have the video online, but password protected so as to avoid youngsters accidentally watching something they should not be.

If you have any other ideas, as to how this situation can be rectified I'm all ears. I firmly believe that this short's sex scene is relevant and furthers the storyline.

Thank you for your time,

Filmmaker"

Just my thoughts,

Kegan

EDIT: Just saw C2V's much more articulate example - use his. That's what I was trying to get at heh. Carry on.
 
^Those are both really great templates on what to say. I should save those for when my movies get banned in the future. lol

Sometimes I want the right to get mad though, I feel like some people just deserve to hear what you really think and I'm tired of watering everything down.

Some people don't say anything, I know people like that. They get e-mails and they'll never even respond, bottling it all up. At least I responded. However I probably would have been more thoughtful as you guys have pointed out above if I actually believed they care, but I really don't think they would give it a second thought no matter what I say. Maybe you guys have more faith in them than I do. So I wanted to at least take the opportunity to tell them how I really feel about it.
 
Well, in that case you are right - it was better than not saying anything at all. It's not so much that I have faith in them, as I do enjoy getting what I want...and if what I wanted was for my film to stay online, that's what I would have done.

If you could host it somewhere else and felt like telling 'em as it is - then by all means, rant away sir!

Kegan
 
GoodLuck said:
^

Sometimes I want the right to get mad though, I feel like some people just deserve to hear what you really think and I'm tired of watering everything down.
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Whereas I think those responses are way more appropriate, I totally understand you man. I do the same, there is a price to pay (they probably won't do anything bout it) but yeah man. Watering things down all the time begins to keep me up at night.

Own website, best solution really. I have never had faith in a big group of ppl (company) treating an individual like an individual. I hope I'm wrong, but I would think vimeo won't answer or change their mind no matter what.

Again, I hope I'm wrong, and I should work on my temper. But dammit sometimes it just feels good.

Loading the movie now :) cheers
 
I know America is different when it comes to this, but here in Germany you can see stuff like that on regular TV program at 20:00 hrs.

shaking head

Frank
 
Wow... just saw this and am bewildered? There's nothing wrong with that film.
I hate to say it, but my film "Song of the Whippoorwill" has been up there and (knock on wood) I haven't had any problems.
http://www.vimeo.com/10223995

It does have nudity in it... this is really strange? Now watch... I'll get banned too! LOL!!
 
GoodLuck said:
Sometimes I want the right to get mad though, I feel like some people just deserve to hear what you really think and I'm tired of watering everything down.
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No one said that you don't have the right to get mad. Heck, yeah... this is maddening. Frustrating, at the very least.

It boils down to communication. Is it worth burning a bridge now because you are mad, when you may need/want that bridge to cross later? There's a big difference between mad and reactionary.

And the honest truth is that we are human. Sometimes, rather often times, saying exactly what we're thinking is saying way too much. That is because what we think is often more reactionary than rational.

The Internet is a tricky place. Typed text does not properly carry intended emotion, as I said before. Plus, it's largely anonymous and that fact alone makes it way too easy to say things that we wouldn't say in any other situation. Look at DVXUser. Members who are habitually reactionary end up having their posts edited or deleted, or end up getting bronzed.

And though you have every reason to be upset, it's important to maintain some semblance of professionalism in communication with staff and mods (and other members) of Internet forums. It is difficult some times, but it is necessary.
 
Adults

Consenting

Passionate

In Love

Tasteful

Where oh where above lies the problem???
Were you done in by the smile? "Oh... the smile!"

I feel your pain, man! You will prevail!
 
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