-DVX100b-

Jan's clearly said that the DVX and the HVX are two totally separate, totally viable product lines. They intend to sell them both for the foreseeable future, side by side. The DVX is likely to remain at least $2,000 less expensive than the HVX (and at street price, maybe closer to $3,000 less!) That puts them in a whole different world.

So yes, Aejaz, I agree with you and I believe, from Jan's earlier statements, that your assessment is spot-on. The DVX and HVX are not in competition with each other, and both will go forward for as long as the public continues to buy them.

And yes, Jarred is totally correct, it was OSBORNE, not Kaypro! I blew that one...
 
i dont pretend to be an expert on all of this camera stuff but im about to buy my first "good" camera having shot a few movies on a piece of crap sony.

to me, the reason it makes sense to wait for the dvx100b is that panasonic just had a rebate on 100a, if i'm not mistaken, that lasts through the end of the month. it sounds like they're trying to get rid of all the 100a's before the 100b comes out because no one will want the 100a once b is on the street.

ultimately, the company isnt about satisfying the customer, its about making money. just follow the money and you can see that the 100b is clearly going to be a better camera, hopefully significantly better, than the 100a.
 
Well, if the DVX100B had the following upgrades:
1. 16:9
2. P2 Slot(s)
3. DVCPRO25/50

I would say that that would make for a terrific B camera to the HVX200 when shooting in SD.
 
I doubt the DVX100B will have any of those Jack, probally just a color change and a few tweaks that still where missing from the 100a upgrade.
 
Jack, I gotta go with Jarred on this one. I cannot imagine a world where *any* of those features would be likely on a "letter revision". Those are huge, massive changes to the manufacturing process. Any one of those would be reason enough to make a new model, and probably call it a DVX150 or DVX200.

(or, more likely, they'll introduce a camera that has all those changes, but they'll call it "HVX200"). :)
 
The DVX does need 16:9 to stay competetive, at least in the UK. The US appears to be going straight from 4:3 to 16:9 HD for a lot of people.

I wonder if they will change the CCDs...?? Doubt it, but it would make sense.
 
Well, "need" is a strong word. If you were choosing between a Sony FX1 (with its native 16:9 chips) or a 4:3-chip DVX100A (in 25p/thin/squeeze), which do you think will produce the better, higher-res image for your standard-def broadcast?

If you're talking about shooting 50i, then yes, the FX1 would have the advantage clearly. But if you're shooting film-style 25p, the Squeeze-mode DVX is already directly competitive, just as high-resolution, and then offers all the other bonuses too (cinegamma, latitude, sensitivity etc).

If your goal is to get full-resolution 16:9 footage, with a filmlike feel, the DVX is already absolutely and thoroughly competitive. It already puts out images that are as high-res as that "native 16:9" camera does.*

As far as the US, I do believe you're right on that -- looks like we're not even going to bother with 16:9 SDTVs. I doubt we'll ever see a 16:9 standard-def broadcast in the US.

*granted the DVX/Squeeze isn't as high-res as an XL2 in 24p/NORM/16:9, but then again that mode threatens to introduce interlace line flicker/twitter. The DVX/Squeeze delivers as much resolution as an interlaced television can handle without twitter.
 
Well, like I said in the other thread, whatever it ends up being I'm getting one and I'm certain I will be very happy with it.
 
stufferino said:
to me, the reason it makes sense to wait for the dvx100b is that panasonic just had a rebate on 100a, if i'm not mistaken, that lasts through the end of the month. it sounds like they're trying to get rid of all the 100a's before the 100b comes out because no one will want the 100a once b is on the street.
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I think this part of your comment does make sense. I remember, Panasonic tailed off and then ultimately stopped the production of DVX100, after launching the DVX100A early 2004.
 
yea, apparently i didnt do my research well enough. the rebate lasts through the end of september. so unless the 100b isnt coming out until at least october, my theory is disproven. but we'll see. im still going to wait.
 
Kelly Olsen said:
Yes, I would buy this camera since I have not yet made my purchase of any DVX 100. I started to buy the current model but my shoot won't start for a month or two so I am very interested in the 100B. I suspect that it could have a native standard def dv 16X9 chip since the HVX is going to have one.The chip might be transportable.

"On paper" the 100A is behind the Canon in regards to 16X9 native and the other HDV cameras, but I'd still lean towards the DVX100 if I had to make the decision today. But if the DVX 100B had any improvement, even just 16X9 native, I'd wait for it and buy a couple of them.
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I know what you mean. But considering the HDX200 also records to tape, I think I would consider that even if I wasn't going to shoot any HD or DVCPro-50.

Of course, I would consider that if the HDX200 delivered the same footage as the DVX100, which I believe it will.

I don't know, it is just hard to decide when something isn't out yet for us to compare.
 
So do I wait for the B or just get the A? This is an important question, for people like me - searching to buy a camera. If I need one, why should I buy an A and than a month later find out the B has some significant improvement? I'd feel like I got jipped.
 
Well, the question you have to ask yourself is -- what do you lose by waiting? If you need a camera now, you buy the "A" now -- because you know it's available now and you can put it to work now. The "B" won't be out for a while, probably sometime in September but that could mean September 30th, which is almost 9 weeks away.

So can you afford to wait? If so, what do you lose by waiting?

And, what will the "deal" be for the "B"? Will it have the same price? The change from the DVX100 to the DVX100A meant a $200 price increase. Will something similar happen with the "B"? Will the "B" have the rebate and the free battery and the free tapes and the free magic bullet and the free dvx book/dvd? Nothing has been announced yet.

And, will the "B" have any new features other than a different color and the removal of lead in the manufacturing process? Nothing has been announced.

So-- an argument can be made both ways. The DVX100A is an incredible deal right now; the DVX100B is an unknown. It all depends on what you're comfortable with -- if you think there will be worthwhile changes in the "B", and you have no need to buy a camera now, and you're willing to risk that the "deal" will be comparable, then why not wait? But if you're not willing to risk that, and if all the goodies and freebies and rebate and stuff like that is tempting, and you really want a camera now, why not buy now?

If you're planning on putting the camera to work, buying now is the only choice that makes any sense. Even if you just got hired to shoot as a wedding shooter, one day a week at $300/day, you'd still make almost $3,000 by the time the DVX100B is released. At that point you could look at your DVX100A as "free", and if the DVX100B had features that you wanted to upgrade for, you're no worse off (except that now you're an experienced shooter with a free camera and the proven ability to make money with it). So if you really wanted the "B" at that time, just sell the "A" on ebay and put the money towards the "B".
 
Hmmm after reading your post it really smacks me in the face that Panasoinic have been caught massively on the hop by Sony... why else would they announce a camera month and months AND months in advance? It all smacks of damage limitation :(

People are flocking to Sony's HD offerings in there droves to the point were in the first month I saw more Sony than I've seen in total of the DVX in all the years since its been realeased!

Even the camera that Pannasonic will be offering (in X months!) appeals to a tiny tiny percentage of the market purely because of the pricing.

If I were anyone in Panasonic now I'd be kinda worried!

For the record I'm waiting for Panasonic to release the price of the HVX in Pounds Sterling and if its 'reasonable' then I'll buy one.... if not I'll consider the 'new' DVX but in a dawning HD market I'm not sure I want anything that won't do some kinda HD. So if that doesn't measure up then I'll be very sorry to be going over to Sony... I really really do want to buy a Panny... all they need to do is provide a product that's up there, so to speak!

Indy.....
 
Indy said:
Hmmm after reading your post it really smacks me in the face that Panasoinic have been caught massively on the hop by Sony... why else would they announce a camera month and months AND months in advance? It all smacks of damage limitation :(
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Sorry but what you've said here speaks more to a lack of understanding of how the professional camcorder market works.

Sony announced their FX1 months and months and months and months in advance of releasing it. They announced it in April 2004, six full months before it was released.

Sony announced their Z1 months and months before it was released. I believe it was announced Oct. 2004, and not delivered until February 2005.

JVC announced their HD100 months and months AND months before it was released -- they announced it in February 2005, and we're STILL waiting for it to come out. We're going on 7 months now.

Panasonic announced the original DVX100 months and months and months before it was released -- they announced it at NAB 2002, it was released October 2002.

JVC announced their HD7000U at NAB 2005. It's not even scheduled to be available until July 2006! That's 14 MONTHS IN ADVANCE.

This is how these companies work. This is how it's done. This is how it's always been done. I've explained at length how it works, and having been in this business for a while, I've seen this pattern repeated every year. There is absolutely nothing "desperate" in what Panasonic's done. They're following the long-established tradition of broadcast camera announcements.

People are flocking to Sony's HD offerings in there droves
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As for Sony selling so many cameras, all I can say is "bull****". While I should probably not say something like "Sony's marketing department is telling blatant lies about the number of units they're moving. And not just lies, but outrageous, ridiculous, scandalous lies -- lies that you can catch them in if you read their prior press releases, before they started lying," I can at least say that I don't believe for one second that the grossly inflated numbers they're announcing are accurate. And why would they inflate the numbers? Perhaps this news story would have something to do with it:
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9075-1712279,00.html

Check out this quote from the article:
"Investors said the Welsh former journalist (new Sony CEO Howard Stringer) would have to be more radical if he is to convince the market that Sony can be pulled back from the edge of oblivion."

I never thought I'd see "Sony" and "oblivion" in the same sentence. That's a pretty harsh assessment. Not everyone shares that dire of an outlook for them, but when announcing a loss 7 TIMES LARGER than anticipated, nobody thinks that is "good news"!

If you still don't think Sony's pr company is inflating the sales figures, why not just call a few retailers and ask 'em point-blank how many Z1's they're actually selling? I did. The number a trusted seller told me was "we still sell three times as many DVX's as we do Z1's".

If you don't believe that, why not look at the street price on the FX1, which started at $3699, dropped to $3499, dropped to $3299, and is currently at $3129. When a product is in hyper-demand, prices don't drop. ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE IS NO COMPETING PRODUCT! Basic laws of supply & demand, etc. But the FX1's price has dropped several times. That's not indicative of strong demand. The Z1's holding its price better, it started at $4900. B&H has it for $4799, and I've seen it for $4499 at Zots. That's still 25% off the retail price. If it was selling as hot as people seem to think, wouldn't you think the price would be going up rather than down? Look at Toyota's Prius -- it was selling for thousands of dollars ABOVE sticker price, with a six-month waiting list. Look at the new Ford Mustang -- there's a huge waiting list, and nobody gets a discount.

Even the camera that Pannasonic will be offering (in X months!) appeals to a tiny tiny percentage of the market purely because of the pricing.
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I don't really understand your point. The HVX is overpriced because it carries a retail price $49 higher than the Sony Z1? What exactly is it you're trying to say?

Sony Z1 retail price: $5946. Panasonic HVX retail price: $5995. That's $46 different. Sorry, I'm not buying your argument any more than the public at large is buying Sony equipment.

If I were anyone in Panasonic now I'd be kinda worried!
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And yet... while Sony announces shocking corporate losses far worse than anticipated, Matsushita's profits are up and they're raising their estimates for future earnings too.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8735952/



Sorry, I don't mean to be crabby, but geez -- Sony is currently in the middle of a full-fledged implosion, going off the deep end, struggling to stay alive -- and their marketing department is (in my opinion) engaged in wholesale deception. It gets old. If anyone here is desperate, it's Sony. Their camera cannot hold a candle, by either end, to either the JVC HD100 in the "pro" area, or the HVX in any way. The only things it's got going for it at all is that a) it's available now, and b) it records on a $4 tape. Other than that, the HVX has its number in every possible way, and the HD100 has got it dead to rights on the looks/"pro" factor.

I applaud Sony for bringing out a camera that's extremely superior to the JVC HD1 in every way. Well done, as far as that goes. Took 'em 18 months after the JVC came to market, but hey -- who's counting? But having made a decent interlaced camera, they could have done a lot better by building the product people actually wanted. The DVX killed the PD150. The HVX will likely have a very, very, very negative effect on the Z1.

The only leg Sony's got to stand on, the only place where they have the market to themselves and will keep it for a while, is that little HC1, the under-$2000 camera. That seems to be quite popular and has really excited a lot of people -- home consumer interests. And that's exactly where HDV is at its best.
 
True the sony is a great camera if 24p .24pa,cinigama ,color space,contrast,etc don't really mater. PS i shoot with sony cameras also canon my choice is pany just for the great look .Not the numbers .Why are there so many winning films shot on Pany???Don
 
Great post Barry, pretty much stating the obvious, but well stated anyway.

What I am sure is that the DVX100b will certainly sell less than the DVX100a, probably because the competition did catch up afterall (hey I thought they had given up!) with the GL2, and all the new HD capable camcorders. Even though the DVX still is the king in it's price range, many costumers of the DVX100a now can move up the ladder for highre end camcorders. The market is more competitive nowadays - thank god!

Well the DVX100a did had a change in the DSP circuit, lenses and prism, something that is quite dramatic for such an early update. But I think that the A model was what Panasonic wanted for the DVX to be. Probably Panasonic made the choice to release the Classic DVX one year earlier not enteirly perfect (and what a wise choice, they ruled the market for a long time, they caught competition off guard). I don't believe that the next upgrade will have such drastic improvements. Changing the production line would mean more expenses with the DVX, and the time for them to spend on the DVX is over, they need to capitalize in the profits to back their next product line launch - all the P2 line.

What I get from them is that Panasonic Broadcast in the last 5 years, maybe more, was lead brilliantly. I'd certanly buy Panny stocks if I had the money...
 
Barry_Green said:
The only leg Sony's got to stand on, the only place where they have the market to themselves and will keep it for a while, is that little HC1, the under-$2000 camera. That seems to be quite popular and has really excited a lot of people -- home consumer interests. And that's exactly where HDV is at its best.
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Any news about what pany is planning for consumers...? I don't think they will be buying many P2 cards! Can they still pay to borrow HDV technology? I am sure Pany can't have just forgotten about this market segment in its excitment over P2. :undecided
 
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