-DVX100b-

I've discussed with several Panasonic reps about what their plans are. They pretty much said "hey, we're one of the largest consumer camcorder manufacturers in the world. If consumers demand HDV, we'll supply HDV."

I think Panasonic and Canon and Sharp's response to HDV will be rather "bellweather" -- if Panasonic introduces an HDV model, I think that will pretty much answer the question as to whether consumers are wanting it. Sharp and Canon haven't produced a single HDV model since signing on to the "HDV coalition" two years ago. JVC started the whole consumer-HDV thing about 28 months ago with the introduction of the HD1, and since then we've only seen two consumer models come out -- the original HD1, and the current Sony HC1 (interesting naming, by the way).

We've seen one "prosumer" model, the FX1, and four "professional" models (the Sony A1, the JVC HD10 and HD100, and the Sony Z1).

The manufacturers seem to be "voting with their feet" that the interest in high-def is among professionals, not consumers. Which uniquely positions Panasonic, with the only professional high-def format, and uniquely positions JVC, with the only professional-form-factor camera. But the manufacturers have so far largely ignored the consumer market, offering only the dismal HD1 and the new HC1.

When you see Sharp HDV Viewcams, and Canon HDV Opturas and things like that, that's about when you can expect Panasonic to jump on HDV and offer HDV GS400's etc.
 
Barry,
Thanks for the detailed reply... Honestly I'm not trying to pee on anyones parade but I just feel such frustration. Today I walked up from Parliament Square (London) to Piccadilly and in that mile and a half walk I saw 3 Sony HD cameras being used by what looked like ordinary people i.e. not professionals. Virtually every electronics shop has them in the window! Since the HVX was announced I have seen not ONE... not ONE mention of it in any of the UK video magazines in any context whatsoever. Looking through those same magazines the editorial has numerous mentions of the Sony HD cameras in various contexts and thats been the case for months before the camera where actually released. ALL the adverts that were selling camcorders had the Sony HD offerings. The only place I could find mention of the DVX was 'tucked' away in the buyers guide with a conclusion of (to paraphrase) "Its been a long time coming but its been worth it" this was nearly 2 years old!

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that the Sony marketing people are doing a fantastic job of getting their product out there and noticed. The fact that it might be inferior to Panasonic's offerings is irrelevant if people don't know about them, there priced in the stratosphere or they don't offer the features people want.

Speaking to someone in the industry he said that the problem was Panasonic's Marketing Dept. and I (roughly!) quote "The engineers are world class but marketing people are as arrogant as f*** so way way over price the products together with absolutely minimum of publicity leads to "DVX/HVX never heard of it" when you ask anyone other than a pro dealer". EVERYONE knows about the Sony. Recommended retail price is irrelevant its what people pay on the street.. as my economics teacher said years ago inflating RRP so the dealer could offer discounts is a practice thats as old as the hills.

I've been a member of this forum for a couple of years and I desperately want to buy an HVX as it appears a superior product to anything else on the market BUT its got to stand up to the other manufactures offerings in both features AND price.

Please Panasonic do your engineers a favor and let the world know how good they are by making the HVX as widely used as possible. Market it like hell and price it like you truly mean it!
My tuppence worth! :)

Indy....
 
It looks like you want a camera that has a lot of current buzz. Indy, you should buy an FX1, because there is so little buzz about HVX and DVX right now. For Gods sake don't bother with a DVX because its "old news" and Panasonic is getting rid of them with rebates and freebies (Jan and all those Hollywood DPs can say all they want, we know the truth don't we).

And nobody at Best Buy or Circuit City knows about the HVX, so that cam has gotta crap.

With a new FX1, when you go out and shoot people will come up to you and say, "oh wow, is that the new sony HD* camera I have heard so much about?" and you can say "yea, its in all the stores now, its so cool" and they will go "cool man" and you will go "cool" then they will say, "awesome" and you will say "totally rad". *not really hi definition

You care so much about press releases, who gives a f**k. Even with the HVX comming out soon and HDV in the current spotlight, I still chose the "old" DVX100a. I don't care if they are unloading them because of DVXb. Great camera, great rebate (allows me to get a good shotgun mic), MB tapes and the book, couldn't pass all that up.

So let all of us dummies buy up this obsolete old technology and you buy up whats hot and new.
 
I think the problem Pany will have with the HVX is that it is ahead of its time. Pany keeps claiming tape is dead, but, I'm sorry, it isn't!

I have no doubt that the HVX will be a great camera, probably better than the HDV rivals. However, I have heard A LOT of people saying they won't buy it because of the P2 system.

Before everyone shouts about how great P2 is, I am not doubting that, I just don't think a lot of people are ready for it yet. The HVX should still have a strong market, but I think P2 will be a bigger force in a few years time. By then the HVX's replacement will be well on the drawing board.

Professionals use handhelds because it enables them to shoot content that they couldn't achieve with a full-size because of budget or convenience. Quality is secondary to content in this market. Many people see P2 storage as too inconvenient and expensive at present - ie major problems in this market sector. As P2 cost:capacity ratio evens out, the HVX's weakness will become a strength.
 
I'm definately not well versed on this topic, but from what I read about the hvx this is no camera for amateurs. So it doesn't matter what you see most people carrying at Piccadilly. Selling more doesn't mean better.

As for mmm's comments, I agree that tape is not dead and won't be for quite a while. mini-dv cassettes are getting cheaper and so are consumer cameras. The market will be there for years to come. I do appreaciate the new tech by panasonic, even though i could never afford it (unless i win the lotter). Those cards are mega expensive. I think i saw one for $2000!!!!

I was actually exicted about the hvx, but when I saw the price of the cards and can only imagine the cost of extra stuff (those hard drives) I was like, uh I'll stick to my aspiration of a getting my hands on a dvx.
 
Indy said:
Barry,
Since the HVX was announced I have seen not ONE... not ONE mention of it in any of the UK video magazines in any context whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Wow, I have a pile of recent video mags here on my desk, and ALL of them have either a 2 page spread or even an entire feature about the cam. I find you saying you haven't seen one mention very hard to believe.

Indy said:
minimum of publicity leads to "DVX/HVX never heard of it" when you ask anyone other than a pro dealer". EVERYONE knows about the Sony.
Indy....
Click to expand...

And EVERYONE knows about the dvx. Saying that people "haven't heard of the dvx" is just crazy. Name one movie in theaters that was shot in the FX1. I can name 3 that were shot with the DVX that are in thearters NOW.
 
Indy,

One thing to keep in mind is that each territory has a different marketing company. Panasonic USA is a marketing and service arm for Panasonic Corporate, charged with the responsibility of selling cameras in the US. Panasonic UK is a totally-unrelated-to-Panasonic-USA company, which is also a division of Panasonic Corporate. Panasonic UK's charter is to sell Panasonic product in the United Kingdom. There's Panasonic Canada, Panasonic New Zealand, etc.

So marketing is a very local thing. Jan is the U.S. boss of the HVX, SDX, and DVX lines, and she decides how they get marketed -- and here in the US, it's impossible to open a magazine or visit a high-traffic website without seeing a DVX ad.

But Jan isn't the boss of Panasonic UK. Sounds to me like you're not happy with the level of presence Panasonic UK is devoting to the product. That's something that would probably be best directed to the appropriate marketing personnel in Panasonic UK.

There's no doubt the FX1 and Z1 got a lot of buzz -- if you want HD, they are pretty much the only thing out right now. JVC had the HD1 but it was a really horrid little camera, and while it got strong sales from "early adopters" when it was first released, it has dwindled to nothing.

Sony, on the other hand, has produced a much better product. The FX1 and Z1 are far better cameras, AS CAMERAS, than the HD1 and HD10 ever were. Everything about the FX1 and Z1 is just so superior that it's really rather laughable to compare the HD1 or HD10 to them. And that's one reason why they've got a lot of goodwill. I've got my share of complaints about 'em (not the least of which is that it's 1080i-only), but compared to the other HD camera, it's night and day. I still don't think it's the product people really want, but it's one that a lot of people have decided to settle for, and if what you want is an interlaced camera, the Sonys are very nice cameras.

But I've heard people throwing around numbers like "150,000 Z1s have been sold." That's just obscenely laughable. It's preposterous. The real number is probably more like 1/10 or 1/20 of that number. Which would still make it a successful camera, but 10,000 or 20,000 is a lot more believable than 150,000! I don't know if there were 150,000 PD150's sold over that camera's entire lifetime -- there is NO WAY AT ALL that the Z1/FX1 have sold more, in the 8 months or so that they've been out, than the PD150 (one of the biggest prosumer sellers of all time) needed five six years to do. It's insane.

I don't doubt they're selling a decent amount of cameras. I just think it's ridiculous what their PR people are putting out there. Even claims of 40,000 sound just incredibly laughably inflated.

Okay, back on subject -- why no articles and press about the HVX? Probably because it's still at least four or five months away. Look back on the incredible (and I do mean INCREDIBLE) amount of posts and buzz that happened when the HVX was first announced -- the forum went insane. But now it's all kind of trickled away, down to a reasonable level of discussion. I expect that when we get closer to release, you'll see ads and articles and buzz all over the place -- and that fever pitch of interest will skyrocket up again.

(oh, and mmm -- tape *is* dead. It just doesn't know it yet. I plan on using my HD100 with HDV Rack most of the time. Tape is simply despicable!) :)
 
Barry_Green said:
... tape *is* dead. It just doesn't know it yet. I plan on using my HD100 with HDV Rack most of the time. Tape is simply despicable!) :)
Click to expand...

To each their own. Personally, I don't like the idea of recording to a laptop. I'd rather just do it the old fashioned way and without computers. I just want to take pictures, man. I think you 'get it' Barry because of your prior background in software development. You are 'in tune' with the computers and this shooting style works well for you. I just don't see it working well for me, that's all.

BW
 
BrianAWells said:
To each their own. Personally, I don't like the idea of recording to a laptop. I'd rather just do it the old fashioned way and without computers. I just want to take pictures, man. I think you 'get it' Barry because of your prior background in software development. You are 'in tune' with the computers and this shooting style works well for you. I just don't see it working well for me, that's all.

BW
Click to expand...


Me too. I would rather loose a little quality than a lot of freedom (and therefore content) that would result from a tethered camera. However, I always use a very "free" camera. If you prefer a locked down camera for your storytelling, I can definitely see the benefits...

Maybe someone could make a Wi-fi adapter for the HVX... :thumbsup:
 
mmm said:
Maybe someone could make a Wi-fi adapter for the HVX... :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
You make an interesting point there, mmm. You've read the same P2 info I have (no doubt) and wasn't there a brief mention of a similar device?? Perhaps it was only proxy quality downconvert for monitoring, but a WiFi 720p24 option to HDD would be a welcome addition! :thumbsup: (man, what a mouthful!)
 
Wifi can certainly achieve the require speed for 720p24 now, I don't know if it can sustain it well though. For drama I think I would still prefer to have a wire hanging around for now (or just go to P2 or tape really), however it could be very handy for live multicamera shoots when pro-transmitters are way out of the budget.

A lower rez version would also be great for Steadicam & handeld work.
 
mmm said:
I would rather loose a little quality than a lot of freedom (and therefore content) that would result from a tethered camera. However, I always use a very "free" camera. If you prefer a locked down camera for your storytelling, I can definitely see the benefits...
Click to expand...
There's rarely a time when my camera isn't tethered to a production monitor. The laptop is the same thing -- it's just another cable; you loom the cables together.

For going totally untethered, that's what the P2 card is for! :thumbsup:
 
I have heard from reputable sources Sony has sold somewhere between 25,000 and 35,000 HD cameras.
 
Barry_Green said:
There's rarely a time when my camera isn't tethered to a production monitor. The laptop is the same thing -- it's just another cable; you loom the cables together.

For going totally untethered, that's what the P2 card is for! :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

I probably use my camera differently from you though Barry, although I get your point entirely. I also have to use it for corporate work etc as well as short films when tethering isn't an option a lot of the time. I also find that the less equipment you have carry around, the better. I don't deny its possible, I'd just prefer not to.:)
 
bvalente said:
I have heard from reputable sources Sony has sold somewhere between 25,000 and 35,000 HD cameras.
Click to expand...
I would think that's possible, if we're talking about 25,000 FX1s and Z1s and HC1's together, worldwide. I think that's reasonable.

40,000 Z1's? Not possible. 150,000? Fantasyland. But 25,000 seems like it's attainable.
 
If you need 16:9 and want to use DV then the HVX200 will do that. So that would make the DVX100B without 16:9 not much use to you..But,,,if they made the DVX with 16:9 and you didn't want HD,,,that would be even better and cheaper. That's what I was really wanting. But I got tired of waiting and blew my budget on a new Nikon camera and a Nikon 70-200VR 2.8 lense. So I don't really have to worry about it for awhile!!
 
BrianAWells said:
NO, it does not. It is a delayed output and is terribly noisy. It's pathetic compared to a mixer...
Click to expand...
Huh ... guess I never scrutinized it for quality, just monitoring, kind of like the LCD is 150 lines less ressolution than squeeze or letterbox and 300 lines less rez than the anamorphic adaptor. I can tell if one actor is hotter than the other on wireless or if I'm getting lots of wind on wireless or shotgun, and if the sound is warm / full / on axis or not ... never noticed the noise or any delay -- wierd and I'm a professional sound designer -- though not an engineer or field recorder.

Not saying you're full of it -- just saying I've never been dissatisfied with it, or noticed any quality issues, but then I'm a newbie wannabe DP, so I'm probably thinking more about, is that in focus, is this the best exposure setting ... etc., even though I know sound quality is more important to percieved overall quality than image.

Still, sounds like this is a known problem, just I've never been disatisfied so I was just asking what the dealio was.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top