dv tape recommandation

[Papasean]

It seemed like this whole dry lube vs. wet lube thing should just be put to rest. Plenty of people used Panasonic tape and plenty of other people (myself included) use Sony tape. I haven't encounter a problem yet.

This all seemed like much ado about nothing.

Exactly.

 

[Kelly Olsen]

It seemed like this whole dry lube vs. wet lube thing should just be put to rest. Plenty of people used Panasonic tape and plenty of other people (myself included) use Sony tape. I haven't encounter a problem yet.

This all seemed like much ado about nothing.

I have a different view. There has been much discussion on the DVXUser board about using the Panny tape for the DVX because of the type of lube. Even Jan from Panasonic has been very clear about using the correct tape with the correct lubricant.

There has not been much discent that the use of the right type based on lubricant is important.

HDV drop outs make a bigger impact than SD dropouts. An SD drop out sometimes is just a little glitch, but an HDV drop out is spread out over a longer period.

There have been several postings about the A1 and problems that appear to clear up with the change of tape brand.

I don't think this is just a "coincidence".

Why is it the law that most adhere to that the DVX100B requires the use of the correct tape (the Panny) with the correct lubricant designed for the camera, and then on the A1 it makes no difference or "much to do about nothing?"

I was told that the A1 was built to work with a particular type of tape with a particulat type of lube just as the DVX100B was.

And there are people here who say that some drop out problems are gone on the A1 when they change tapes. Seems like that is possible evidence that the tapes can make a difference.

One person here says that the Canon rep I heard say that the A1 was designed for the opposite type of lube that is on the Panasonic tape is wrong and doesn't know what he was talking about. Could be. I have gotten bad information from employees before (lots of times).

If you think it makes no matter, then use what you want. But there are some of us who actually think that correct information is usefull and want to find out what the real answer or recommendation is, just like there is a real answer and recommendation for the DVX.

Sadly, we don't have a rep from Canon like we have from Panasonic on this site.

I'm probably going to be attending a training seminar put on by Canon next month. It is offered by Birns and Sawyer and will have Greg Salman, "Master Trainer from Canon".

I'll see if he has information about the issue and I'm going to track down the rep from Canon who put on the last demo I was at and get him to put the comments in writing.

Since one person here is confident that the Canon person is dead wrong and others here say it makes no difference, and others say it makes a big difference, I think the answer is worth pursuing.

Isn't this the type of information we troll these sites for? We split hairs all the time on this site on things and try to get that slightest little improvement in picture quality, and tips on which mike has one db more of sensitivity. The medium that our images are actually recorded on seems to be one of the most important links in the image recording process.

So if you are interested, stay tuned. If it makes no difference to you, then that's fine too, but I'd like to see if somebody at Canon can help us get the answer to the question about the best type of tape and if the camera heads were designed for wet or dry lube and reasons to use that tape just like there is an answer for the DVX100B.

Thanks.

 

[Steve Strickland]

Thanks for your diligence, Kelly. I bought ten Sony HDV tapes with my new A1, and this thread has made me question that decsion. I'm looking forward to hearing your report.

If I made the wrong call, hopefully, I can switch it up before I run into any trouble.

Cheers.

 

[Huy Vu]

HDV drop outs make a bigger impact than SD dropouts. An SD drop out sometimes is just a little glitch, but an HDV drop out is spread out over a longer period.

I've been a victim of HDV dropout before so I know very well the dangers.

There have been several postings about the A1 and problems that appear to clear up with the change of tape brand.

This is just a "coincidence?" I don't think so.

Why is it the law that most adhere to that the DVX100B requires the use of the correct tape (the Panny) with the correct lubricant designed for the camera, and then on the A1 it makes no difference or "much to do about nothing".

I think that the A1 was built to work with a particular type of tape with a particulat type of lube just as the DVX100B was.

Drop-out is a chance occurance that can occur across any tape. I've used the Pana tape and the Sony tape on different HDV cameras and have gotten drop-outs from both. Yes, there have been reports of problems being resolved with a tape brand change, but are these indicative of a major problem or are they simply isolated incidents? Overall you have to consider the big statistical picture. Out of the hundreds of people with A1 who are represented across the various forums, how many are actually encountering major problems when using either exclusively Sony tape or Pana tape? It seemed to me to be a vocal minority.

But there are some of us who actually think that correct information is usefull and want to find out what the real answer or recommendation is, just like there is a real answer and recommendation for the DVX.

It's insulting to imply that I'm too lazy to search for "the truth." Do you think I like spending $10 per HDV tape instead of the $5 for the Pana? But this tape issue is a non-issue. It's like that debate of 24p vs. 24F. Technically, 24F is inferior in resolution, but do you see anyone complaining about that today? Sony tape, Pana tape, whatever. As long as they do what I need I'll pick one brand and stick with it. Unless you find that using the "wrong" brand can damage my camera somehow then I'll switch. Until all this debate does is freak people out that they've went with the wrong brand and inspire endless threads asking "What tape do I use?"

 

[Noel Evans]

Ill say this . I used the Canon tape that came with the cam originally then moved to my Pana tapes. First tape - which thankfully was to test settings had two major dropouts.

Ive seen many cameras do this in the first few - god know why exactly. But a run of the cleaning tape once cleared that up havent had a drop out since. Still using the same tapes.

 

[Darkeyesuk2000]

This whole Minidv And Hdv wet vs dry debate is quite funny if you think about it. The whole reason we have hdv is because it was the cheapest way to bring HD to the masses by upgrading minidv technology. What i mean by this is that there was no need to develope new tape transport systems or tapes. all you do is record a slightly different signal to the tape. ie a hd signal instead of a sd signal. too keep costs down. Now the drum units that are in either the sony or panny cameras are used by different manufactures. whose is to say that the canon A1 of example is not using a sony or a panny drum unit?
The fact is i dont know? I know that back in the mini dv days sony were using panny ccds in there camera`s.
this all helps keep costs down. Why spend millions making your own when you can use some one elses?

 

[Alan Craig]

Question all this debating about tape brands wet lub or dry lub anybody know if there was a wet or dry lub on tapes used in VCR equipment they did a similar job and yet I never knew anybody who had to have a new head put in their equipment if they had a problem out came the cleaning tape and it was sorted. my vcr recorded and rerecorded countless times on every make of tape under the sun until the advent of dvd and it still plays now although a bit long in the tooth and not quite as good a picture

 

[Kelly Olsen]

It's insulting to imply that I'm too lazy to search for "the truth.".... all this debate does is freak people out that they've went with the wrong brand and inspire endless threads asking "What tape do I use?"

"Too lazy?"

You misinterpreted my comments. Nothing that I wrote was directed at you and none of this thread has been anything but civil, polite discussion. I'm perplexed as to why you are taking the discussion and sharing of information so personally.

As far as being "freaked out" by the discussion, I'm sorry that this has affected you in this manner and it is not my intent at all.

It is a good faith effort on my part to share information and get to the bottom of a potentialy important technical issue.

Imagine yourself in my shoes. Just pretend for a moment that the following happend to you.

You are sitting in a room and listening to a "Expert" from Canon, not just a store salesman, and the expert says he is telling you important things you need to know about the Canon A1.

One of the things he says is, "Never use Panasonic tapes in this camera becuase it has a lubricant which is not designed for the camera. Only use Sony because it has the right type of lube."

Then he goes on to say that his office is at the Canon Corporate office right at the service department and that "the majority of problems the service center sees with the A1 is clogged heads and that the majority of the clogged heads are traced to the use of Panasonic tapes."

This is not a guy on the street, not a Sony tape salesman, but a rep from Canon, so he should have at least a little credibility. At least enough to make you think about what he has said.

So now you are on this website and you see a discussion about this very issue. People are asking questions if tape brands make a difference.

Jeez, you just heard this Canon "expert" make a very strong statement that in fact it makes a huge diference and DON"T use the Panny tape.

So, would you say to yourself, I think I will do what this board is designed for and share some information that was not a rumor or third hand and give an accurate attribution to the source and post "Hey, I just heard this Canon person who seemed to have an inside track say a very strong statement which is...." (like I did), with the hopes of helping others and maybe saving a fellow user some grief or at least begin a process of getting to the bottom of the answer that MANY have asked over and over.

Or, do you say to yourself, "I better not share the information because it might freak somebody out so I'll just keep silent and if they have problems, too bad."

I chose to present information and said where the information came from. And I didn't just dump it and run. I said I would try to track the guy down and have him correct me or put it in writing. I also identified another person who will be at another Canon seminar and I said I would attend that (and pay for it) and ask for the answer.

I think I have been a responsible presenter of the information and have taken on the responsibility of following up.

If that offends you personally and makes it feel like it is directed towards you, then I am sorry and can testify that nothing is directed towards you (whoever you are are).

And for those of you who are interested and understand my intent, I'll shall keep asking questions and making responsible, informative posts when I find out further information.

 

[Papasean]

Hey Kelly Olsen, what did the Canon rep say about the canon tape that canon gives us with our purchase? Ok, I just read a page back when that canon rep said not to use canon tapes either.... hmmmmmm... it really seems like canon has the problem within their tech department, if you ask me. I just bought a A1 last month and just like everyone who buys one, it come with a canon tape. Seems like that canon rep and sony have something going on? Well I've already bought pana tapes and started using them, so it is what it is pana. I use sony premiums in my little Panasonic PV-GS300, so I guess it doesn't really matter. But I'm a newbie so I'll learn with time. Thanks for the info though. Canon needs to give customers the right tape from now on.

 

[Kelly Olsen]

Papasean,

Let me clarify. The Canon rep said that the Canon tapes were "OK" and had the correct lube, but he preferred and recommended the higher grade Sony. He did not elaborate further.

My point in mentioning it was to show that he was not being brand biased towards the company he worked for by directing us away from Panny in favor of Canon tapes. As far as suggesting he has a "deal" with Sony, I guess anything is possible.

Many people are using Panny and other brands appear not to be having a problem at this time and some report that problems are resolved when they change to a different brand tape.

Again, I have no evidence that he is right or wrong. I'm just passing along what was said and I will try to track it down and see if there are others at Canon who concur or disagree.

 

[Elton]

I've been using Panasonic MQ's and PQ's for quite some time with very little trouble. I don't think it's such a bad idea to preventatively run a head cleaning tape (dry) every now and then either.

The funny thing about the dropouts I've experienced are that they're usually decoding errors that more often than not played just fine on a second pass. I've had less than a handful of unrecoverable dropouts from tape, and of course never had a dropout with the Firestore C.

 

[Alan Craig]

Iasked Canon Support centre a few questions This was there reply.

"Dear Customer,


Thank you for your recent enquiry regarding your Canon XH-A1.

Please be advised that Canon do not publish information with regards to specific types of tape which can and can't be used with the camcorder. The only information we can provide you regarding this is that it's designed to be used with videocassettes bearing the "Mini-DV" mark.

Please be advised that there are no firmware updates for the XH-A1 whih have been made generally available. Any firmware updates which are released are designed to resolve possible issues which may occur with the camcorder. If you are experiencing any problems with your XH-A1 our advice would be to get it sent back to one of our service centres. When they examine and service it, they will apply any firmware updates which are necessary.


Yours sincerely,"