Driftwood Quantum Series: **New Releases** Orion, Rocket and β Pictoris

Ryan Farnes said:
To the Jimmy Koreas of the world:

Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

The hack is being developed for free and distributed for free with instructions available for free for anyone that can navigate a simple page by page flowing thread based website at Personal-View.com

I wish a consolidated and real time list of the flavors of the GH2 hack existed. But then I realized I would have to lead and make it, but that it would be a **** load of work, current and ongoing into the future. So I stopped dreaming about it and realized I was unwilling to do it for now.

So I don't lead. I follow. I update my GH2 periodically and just keep my ear to the ground sporadically.

You and all the other Jimmies of the world need to get out of the way. Please do not disturb my inner tranquility again by requesting that Driftwood or other people working on this incredible and free hack, devote time to dumbing it down for the WYSIWYG drag and drop drones of the world. There is no conspiracy to withhold this hack from the unwashed masses. Instead, you've conspired against yourself by expecting simplicity at every turn.
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hahahah drama queen..I started a thread 30 minutes ago for people to pool their experiences of different hacks here http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?276611-GH-Camera-Hacks-for-Dummies-(List) It took all of two minutes......you can stop dreaming now. I can't guarantee people who have used the hacks will use it though. Hey you could be the first poster cause your camera has the lastest hack. Don't let me down...

*Older hacks would be appreciated I'm not sure always the latest ones are nessecary the best ones.
 
jimmykorea said:
Thats silly, this is a GH2 camera section how exactly does it not relate to peoples experiences using the hack on the GH cameras?

Personal view is mainly guys who know the jargon who are working on developing it. Don't start making some sujects taboo on DVX User it dosen't help anyone.
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No one said anything about taboo. The hack is Vitaliy's thing, there is a dedicated site for the hack. If you want the information you seek, post there.

Let's leave this topic for what it was started for, please.
 
jimmykorea said:
hahahah drama queen..I started a thread 30 minutes ago for people to pool their experiences of different hacks here http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?276611-GH-Camera-Hacks-for-Dummies-(List) It took all of two minutes......you can stop dreaming now. I can't guarantee people who have used the hacks will use it though. Hey you could be the first poster cause your camera has the lastest hack. Don't let me down...

*Older hacks would be appreciated I'm not sure always the latest ones are nessecary the best ones.
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And please do not attack other members, name calling is a form of that.
 
Kholi said:
And please do not attack other members, name calling is a form of that.
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I was just kidding with the guy. You honestly don't think maybe the guy was a little agressive and condesending to me first? Anyway I hope people bother to post their personal experiences in the GH hack section thread. Thanks for moving it to there I think its more appropriate there.
 
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jimmykorea said:
You honestly don't think maybe the guy was a little agressive and condesending to me first?
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I agree that how he said it was tacky, but I agree with what he said (basically). I agree with you that a single thread that organizes all the hacks would be nice, but it would become chaotic quick and hard to maintain. It's honestly been tried before (including one on personal-view.com). The rate at which new versions of hacks are coming out is ridiculous.

Unfortunately, it really is best to just head over to personal-view.com and also ask questions there. Vitaliy does a good job of trimming the threads there to stay on topic and be accurate for beginners. Just understand that it's a lot of pixel peeping that leads to the differences, so there isn't one "right" answer to any of this.
 
Andor said:
I agree that how he said it was tacky, but I agree with what he said (basically). I agree with you that a single thread that organizes all the hacks would be nice, but it would become chaotic quick and hard to maintain. It's honestly been tried before (including one on personal-view.com). The rate at which new versions of hacks are coming out is ridiculous.

Unfortunately, it really is best to just head over to personal-view.com and also ask questions there. Vitaliy does a good job of trimming the threads there to stay on topic and be accurate for beginners. Just understand that it's a lot of pixel peeping that leads to the differences, so there isn't one "right" answer to any of this.
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I can see totally see your point, completely, but also there are whether you like it or not new people coming back to the GH cameras and DVX USER now the hack has developed and RED dropped the Fixed Lenes many people are looking at the GH2 as an alternative. These like me haven't been focused on the GH until quite recently. I understand the hacks are Vitalily's thing but I still say here is a perfectly good forum to discuss the user experience of the hacks. Just like I don't want to understand all the technicalities of how the Red camera works or any camera for that matter. I have always undeerstood RED's communications about the camera with Jim Jannard boiling I'm sure complex stuff down often to basically this new things rocks here the link. I'm talking about user experience and the hack is no different to using any other piece of software or camera, to say its free is hard for me to understand as I have donated a chunk of money, which I would encourage anyone to do whether they read about it here on on Personal view. All the arguments seem to be about not disrupting the developers with newbie questions, well what could be better to not ask them and just pool average Joe users experiences here on DVX USER. The simple thread if used would solve all these issues, it wouldnt fail if people used it and mods deleted unneeded postings.

One last thing as I don't want to disrupte this thread other than to answer your point and again repeat if people post on the same thread we can pool things together is that those who are developing patches should think about possibly charging for really great patches. I have no problem paying a dollar or two for a great patch if its sold to me in clear Englsih what it can do. Why shouldnt people get paid if they are using their time and talent for others?
 
Boiled down, I consider two points people need to know about the hacks:

1. Bitrate - This is easy to get. Higher bitrate requires a faster card. It means more detail in the frame and more memory used.
2. GOP / INTRA and how this relates to AVCHD (codec the GH2 uses)

GOP stands for Group of Pictures. AVCHD is a variable bitrate codec (VBR) that's focused on small file sizes. Though some hacks fight this (such as a constant bitrate hack), keep in mind how AVCHD was designed.

This is not 100% right, but you'll understand it, and I think it's good enough:

Now, GOP in plain terms means that there are I frames and P frames. I = Individual and P = Previous. An I frame is a full / good read of the sensor (like a key frame in animation). P frames are based off of I frames and the P frames before them (saves room, yo!). The default GOP is 12. This means that for each second of video there are only TWO I frames:

Example of 1 second of video frame by frame (@ 24p): IPPPPPPPPPPPIPPPPPPPPPPP

GOP1 says that instead of a Group of Pictures being 12 frames long, it's just an I frame. Thus, you can imagine, GOP1 is sexy. Unfortunately, sexy things are also needy, and in this case GOP1 needs a higher bitrate. That harlot.
 
Andor said:
Boiled down, I consider two points people need to know about the hacks:

1. Bitrate - This is easy to get. Higher bitrate requires a faster card. It means more detail in the frame and more memory used.
2. GOP / INTRA and how this relates to AVCHD (codec the GH2 uses)

GOP stands for Group of Pictures. AVCHD is a variable bitrate codec (VBR) that's focused on small file sizes. Though some hacks fight this (such as a constant bitrate hack), keep in mind how AVCHD was designed.

This is not 100% right, but you'll understand it, and I think it's good enough:

Now, GOP in plain terms means that there are I frames and P frames. I = Individual and P = Previous. An I frame is a full / good read of the sensor (like a key frame in animation). P frames are based off of I frames and the P frames before them (saves room, yo!). The default GOP is 12. This means that for each second of video there are only TWO I frames:

Example of 1 second of video frame by frame (@ 24p): IPPPPPPPPPPPIPPPPPPPPPPP

GOP1 says that instead of a Group of Pictures being 12 frames long, it's just an I frame. Thus, you can imagine, GOP1 is sexy. Unfortunately, sexy things are also needy, and in this case GOP1 needs a higher bitrate. That harlot.
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Hallelujah!! someone is speaking English again. Thankyou.
 
As a video engineer I can tell you that what seems intuitive, simple, and clear to a technically competent programmer is often gobbledygook to the more artistic types. On the other hand the techies aren't always the best at demonstrating or explaining the creative advantages of their work and how to get the best results from it.
There is a need for some kind of middle ground where those that are both technically competent with their own cameras and have good artistic skills with creative imagery can help bridge the divide.
I am one who is looking at the GH2 as a low cost interim alternative to the original Scarlet concept, as much for its ability to use the broadest range of lenses as for image quality. Some filtering of information about the better hacks is certainly appreciated. GH2 is a great camera to experiment with.
 
jimmykorea said:
...those who are developing patches should think about possibly charging for really great patches. I have no problem paying a dollar or two for a great patch if its sold to me in clear Englsih what it can do. Why shouldnt people get paid if they are using their time and talent for others?
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Because what you are suggesting is illegal and opening people to lawsuits. The GH2's firmware is Panasonic's intellectual property and only they can make money from it, unless they grant a license. Think of it as if you took someone's music, changed a few parts and resold it as your work. That would last all of two minutes in a court of law.

Panasonic have changed positions several times concerning the "hacking" activities, going as far as locking the firmware down in one of the last GH1 updates. They seem to relaxing a bit, but if people started selling patches based on their IP, I think the party will come to a grinding halt.

The original donations were not for the hack, but so that Vitaliy could actually buy several bodies to work on. At least one needed to be trashed to extract the underlying code.

You asked a while back for help in purchasing an iMac. I offered some suggestions which apparently didn't meet with your approval and there is still an answered question in that thread that you have not had the courtesy to reply to. But my experience, and many other people's has come from going out there, putting money down to try things out, and eventually getting on with doing what it is we want to do. You however seem to be coming in and demanding that people lay it all out for you.

There are numerous threads that are devoted to giving step by step instructions on implementing the hack. So choose a few (there are also threads that list the patches) do the hack and find out for yourself. Then perhaps YOU can come back to share your experience.
 
Ryan Farnes said:
To the Jimmy Koreas of the world:

Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
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Exactly the kind of post that makes me embarrassed to be part of online communities sometimes.

I've put an accumulative total of DAYS into following and testing these hacks, but I still appreciate when an effort is made to state the main advantages of a hack in laymans terms.

No, I don't like it either when someone demands hand-holding when they arrive on the scene - I believe everyone should do their own homework.
But this is not what this is about. It's about sharing the wealth of information and experience - discussing each patch and highlighting what it does compared to others. Instead, certain people childishly play their cards close to their chest and fling out 'noob' insults to anyone who dares want to join in on your secret hobby.

There's a middle ground to be found here. This is supposed to be a collaborative community.
 
stoneinapond said:
Because what you are suggesting is illegal and opening people to lawsuits. The GH2's firmware is Panasonic's intellectual property and only they can make money from it, unless they grant a license. Think of it as if you took someone's music, changed a few parts and resold it as your work. That would last all of two minutes in a court of law.

Panasonic have changed positions several times concerning the "hacking" activities, going as far as locking the firmware down in one of the last GH1 updates. They seem to relaxing a bit, but if people started selling patches based on their IP, I think the party will come to a grinding halt.

The original donations were not for the hack, but so that Vitaliy could actually buy several bodies to work on. At least one needed to be trashed to extract the underlying code.

You asked a while back for help in purchasing an iMac. I offered some suggestions which apparently didn't meet with your approval and there is still an answered question in that thread that you have not had the courtesy to reply to. But my experience, and many other people's has come from going out there, putting money down to try things out, and eventually getting on with doing what it is we want to do. You however seem to be coming in and demanding that people lay it all out for you.

There are numerous threads that are devoted to giving step by step instructions on implementing the hack. So choose a few (there are also threads that list the patches) do the hack and find out for yourself. Then perhaps YOU can come back to share your experience.
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Relax my friend. Its a camera forum and I'm asking questions about those cameras. I believe I thoroughly thanked you and others on the thread you referred to. Costs nothing to be nice if helpful is what your attempting to be by giving info.


internet-tough-guy.jpg
 
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jimmykorea said:
To illustrate my point I just grabbed the first forum entry from GH2 Personal view latest hack. Honestly you got to see the funny side of this..

*****Changes from v2 include;-Adjusted matrix. AVC-INTRA Matrix on I Frame coding with AVC Intra Scaled Matrix on lower field HBR/1080i P frames and 720 P/B frames. 24p Slightly improved quality to match highest i frames 6080808 limit. 1080i/HBR vastly improved. 720 modes now on GOP12/15 to match frame limit usage of 1080i/HBR (ie percentage increase to match higher frame limit for HBR mode which were capped in v2)
INFO: Settings include;-Adaptive Hi Bitrate INTRA on 1080p24 upto 154M; Adaptive Hi Bitrate 25p(50i PsF) upto 100M; Adaptive Hi Bitrate 30p (60i PsF) upto 100M+; Adaptive Hi Bitrate INTRA 1080i modes upto 100M+; Hi bitrate 720p modes on GOP 12/15 with B frames upto 50M safest; Highest Quality tested MJPEG on 1920x1080 (720 compression mode); Highest Quality tested MJPEG on 1280x720 (480 compression mode); EX Tele Mode support (will increase bitrate usage by around 20M); 80% on 1080p modes (will increase bitrate usage by around 25M)***
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As you've no doubt concluded, that kind of detailed technical information is intended for people who enjoy trying out and testing experimental hacks. They look forward to the next version, as it gives them an opportunity compare and contrast a wide variety of potential solutions. Many of the most diligent hack testers have made important discoveries and gone on to develop their own patch variations.

That level of involvement requires a serious time commitment to absorbing information and testing results. Since that kind of project doesn't appeal to you, I'd humbly suggest clicking on the link in my signature below, and trying out my GH2 Flow Motion patch. It will take you to a single post that contains all the information you need to know to install and use it. This patch is designed to be failsafe rather than experimental, and has been stress-tested in all NTSC and PAL video modes. If you want to read further, I've provided a variety of video samples, with downloadable original GH2 MTS files. In my experience, this is about as user-friendly as hacking your camera is going to get, and you are always welcome to come back and report your results or ask for clarification on any of the details.
 
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