Downgrade from HVX200 to HMC151

B

Bante

Active member
I'm about to switch from my HVX200 to a HMC151 but before I take the plunge I would like some advice. Will I regret this downgrade?

I shoot lots of presentations and events, so the SD cards with long record time is a bless and is the main reason I want to switch.

However, I also do shorts, musicvideos and commercials so I'm worried that the colors will be harder to play around with in post with a 151. Is there any playroom at all with 21mbps? Is there any way to record a higher bitrate thru the HDMI out? Nanoflash?
 
If you're using an original HVX200, you're going to notice a significantly cleaner picture with less noise and better sensitivity and more accurate colors. So that's all a plus.

And there are some very nice usability features too -- waveform monitor, last-clip-delete, all sorts of nice upgrades.

And the ergonomics are a hundred times better.

But, you won't have variable frame rates, and you won't have 4:2:2, and you won't have standard-def recording.

4:2:0 in the 1080/24pN mode isn't bad, it's recorded progressive so it's as good as 4:2:0 can get.

And yes, you can definitely use a Nano or whatever out the HDMI.
 
I've done exactly that "downgrade".

After a while, I realized that it was actually an upgrade. First of all, my firestore 100gb harddrive was a total mess, battery lasted less than one hour, not to meniton the darn firewire port in the hvx200, it's a joke how they made it.
SD cards are very cheap and easy to find if you would need a new one quickly out on the field. Can't say the same about P2 cards now, can I? :grin:


And because of me never using DV tapes, I carried around a lot of extra weight that was totaly useless for me. The HMC is just so much lighter, and easier for run n gun situations. Also, I'm using a 35mm adapter, and the HMC has a flip function for the lcd monitor, so no need for a flipmodule, saving in on the size and weight.

The HMC is much better in low light situations. There is a big difference in the picture in low light situations (yes I've done a side by side test between them).
Maybe it's just me, but IMO the HMC gives more crisp and nicer looking colours.
Allthough it has a bit more noise in the picture, so you gotta be careful with the scene file settings, don't crank them up to high (detail) as the noise will appear quickly.

But it all comes down to what you do. You won't notice any difference in the picture unless you play it on a big HD screen. If you're going to shoot mostly for SD purposes, or for HD on Internet, the HMC won't let you down.
 
Justyn on this forum sold his HVX200 for an HMC150 last year and loved it. His posts helped convince me to get my HMC150. The longer record times were a big deal to him. I'm not sure exactly where his posts are (he wrote several as I recall) but maybe you can search for "justyn hmc150 hvx200 sold" on this site or PM him if you want another opinion.
 
" You won't notice any difference in the picture unless you play it on a big HD screen"

What differences are you referring to?
Thanks
 
If you compare them on a larger HD monitor you will notice that the HMC picture is a bit softer, less color fidelity and a bit more noise.
It is about 20% lower on the objective image quality scale.
 
More pronounced quality difference with HVX200a (vs200) or is that your reference? Any idea how low light of 200a is vs 150?
 
I defintiely consider this an "upgrade" over the HVX200. The p2workflow is great, but the cost of the cards adn the whole wrangling thing is a pain in the booty. This past weekend I shot 17 hours of content and never had to backup a single thing in the field cause I have so many reliable SDHC cards. I did my backups at night and it was awesome.

The 150 is way better in low-light, is a lighter camera, has a bettery battery, has less noise, and less smear off lights. Almost none of that purple light streaks with the 150....

The only two things that I feel that the HVX was better as was greenscreen, just in that it's more forgiving than the 150.... ; and the audio is a bit more robust in that you can certainly push the 150 a bit too much and it is more likely to distort, but good monitoring of both of these "drawbacks" is easy enough to pull off...

The 200a is about the same as the 150, but I wouldn't even call that superior on so many levels. I really really really never look back at the 200, cause it's just not practicle anymore.... The only last thing that I kind of miss is the timelapse, but I'll take the 150 anyday over the 200.

I also believe that you'll retain the value better on the 150 when you sell it. I was kind of disgusted in with how much I lost on the HVX when I sold it... maybe due to competition and just cause it's a more expensive camera...


Tiger.. thanks for the plug. I like to share on this community as I've learned and been benefitted so much by this site. Barry has been a constant source of unbiased and pertinent info and it was his advice and also a few other early adopters that really helped me to make the leap... After I had the 200 and the 150, the 200 stayed in the bag so much that I decided to sell it. The 150 is just such a great camera that I'm still impressed and I've had it now almost 2 years.


Cheers to Barry, this site and Panny for delivering an UPGRADE at half the price. Well in actuality it was even better deal cause with the HVX I had to buy the P2store and the P2 cards and I rented cards all the time. For about 300 bucks I have enogh SD cards to shoot for about 15 hours at 1080 24p. For 300 bucks on P2, you'd be lucky to get to shoot an hour of 1080p.
 
Thanks,
Does the 150 offer a simple downconvert to SD? My main client right now wants DV tapes. Tired of renting but don't want to bet on SD for the long term. That's why I was considering the 200a if I found a great deal. But then the whole DSLR video thing muddied the waters some. Right now, I need traditional video zoom too much to go with a DSLR.
 
Well a DSLR also gives you the same problems going to MiniDV tape as AVCHD does. And DSLR's require a great deal of care, setup, gear, and expertise to take full advantage of them. It's an immature market with a fair share of crutches, ideally dealt with by a small crew that can run the support gear you need with them (stabilizer, monitor, rack focus and audio recorder). Without them, it's very easy to produce cruddy footage. Unless you're a God, though - some people pull it off solo here and there. Requires remarkable talent. Or if you're going for crazy-hip grunge music videos where nothing is ever in focus and it's cool. That of course can be done solo.

You bet, Justyn. I appreciate all the help you give here and the samples you post from time to time. They often reminds me of what I'd wanted to do at my church.

Gweilo66, have you considered getting any old MiniDV camcorder with AV-in ports to dub your footage onto tapes? It's a bit of a pain, to be sure, but consider in the long run how much business you expect to do with this particular client. If there's much chance you'll work for other clients then I wouldn't give too much weight to the MiniDV issue. The 150 has a lot of advantages and you can utilize all of them if you're willing to sit for an hour to baby-sit some tape dubbing for this client. Having HD masters is a perk anyway, and if you record to the DV tape on the 200 there will never be an HD master archived.

Just food for thought. If this client is a major deal however, with lots of turn-around (and/or same-day turnaround), then maybe the 200 is the option for you. Panasonic designed it for clients like yours, still transitioning to HD. If that's what you need, I think your choice is pretty clear.

Good luck :)
 
For the difference in price you might also be able to pick up a cheap used DVX100 and have the best of all worlds.... and then you could pick up a Rebel T2i and also the 150 for the cost of a 200a
 
They have wanted 30p full screen mini DV so far. Maybe I should find out if they would accept letterbox, assuming that's what a 150 to DV dub would have to be. Are you talking about analog dub out of the 150 or firewire?
I have a cheap sony handycam that I use to digitize/archive/log the DVX footage, but it doesn't do progressive so I don't think I could use it as a dubber.
 
HMC150 is a downgrade? :)

After having used both, I would say, it's really an upgrade for the most part.

Now if they were to release a new HVX or HPX that shot on P2 cards, in AVC-I and did the traditional HVX framerates.. then that would be an upgrade!
 
I own a HPX172 and there's no way I would ever "upgrade" to a HMC!! SD cards are so flimsy and small I feel like I could break them every time I grab them! They are also easily lost! The P2 workflow is industry standard for a reason, there's so many advantages to it I don't even know where to begin! If you've ever used Edius Broadcast with integrated P2 viewer function you know what I'm talking about!
 
Of course.. for the price of a few decent sized p2 cards I could buy another HMC150.

Besides, SD cards are much easier to smuggle out of war torn areas. They fit in sooo many convenient..er.. "spots". :D
 
Gweilo66 said:
They have wanted 30p full screen mini DV so far. Maybe I should find out if they would accept letterbox, assuming that's what a 150 to DV dub would have to be. Are you talking about analog dub out of the 150 or firewire?
I have a cheap sony handycam that I use to digitize/archive/log the DVX footage, but it doesn't do progressive so I don't think I could use it as a dubber.
Click to expand...

An analog dub from the HMC150 can be either letterbox, squeeze, or crop (set it in the menu). I don't know how it handles 30p from a technical standpoint.

Unfortunately it has no Firewire port, the only real-time/playback digital output is the HDMI port. USB connects it to a computer to drag & drop files but it doesn't function as a USB camera/webcam.
 
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