Does the DVX200 have a future?

B

bjewett

Member
So the DVX200 has been conspicuously absent in publicity from Panasonic for awhile. After Panasonic launched the UX90/UX180 I figured a DVX200 update was coming but ... no mk2 or the like. There is a $400 rebate for the DVX200, ending Sep. 30; clearing inventory before an update? (hope springs eternal). The GH5 firmware update and EVA1 have had all the attention.

Really, a DVX200 updated with GH5 innards (180 fps, faster processor/readout to use [?] more of sensor at 60p UHD etc) would be great. Perhaps still with a 13x (or even 10x) zoom to limit weight, faster lens (even if build-to-order, I'd pay!) would be terrific.

I *really* want 10 bit 4:2:2 in whatever I buy. I take it this rules out the ux180.
The FS5 is said to have lots of limitations, the PXW-Z150 stores at 50 Mb/s data rate ... I'd *like* to stay with Panasonic (I have an old dvx100). Better low light would be good but the 4:2:0 8-bit and other limitations of the A7sii makes me reluctant to go there. The BM ursa pro sounds awesome except.. rumors of persistent FPN and poor low light make me steer clear of that too.

The EVA1 is really more (including lense(s)) than I wanted to spend, at least initially.
Are the desired capabilities just stuck at/above $7k for now? (Fs7,EVA1)
Anyone have suggestions or rumors for me? I'd really like a full camcorder form factor and capability.
 
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Everything gets a new form and content eventually...

I'm planning to buy Atomos Inferno to have 4:2:2. And I don't think Panasonic is going to update the cam just now. They've just released EVA1 and GH5. If they make 4:2:2 for DVX200 then why people would bother with EVA1?
 
AlexLF said:
Right, how do you record this without external recorder?
Click to expand...

Which also begs the question, what next for 10 bit external recorders once all the cameras become 10 but internal ? I wouldn't be surprised to see a 10 bit version of the DVX-200 in a year or two, a DVX-300 perhaps but who knows what the thinking is in how successful the large format/fixed lens DVX-200 has been in real terms ?
 
Well, I guess releasing a new camera with just a better recorder wouldn't be reasonable. There should be more, like really smaller/lighter package, better connectivity... and we'll go to EVA1 :)

Also, you'll get really fat files, so you'll need way better computer hardware, etc. Are people ready/able/want to do that? And let's not forget the client - does he really eager to get 10 4:2:2 instead of 10 4:2:0 ? Those clients are EVA1 target, not DVX200. IMHO.
 
If they make 4:2:2 for DVX200 then why people would bother with EVA1?
--
Interchangeable lenses for one...
 
AlexLF said:
Exactly my point. That's why they won't in the near future.
Click to expand...
As long as there isn't a study on fixed vs interchangeable lens "camcorder" to consult for us, it's save to assume fixed-lens-all-in-one cameras like the DVX200 still have a marked.
But maybe you have some more insight you'd like to share...?
 
AlexLF said:
Right, how do you record this without external recorder?
Click to expand...

If anyone's work requires 10 bit then they should invest in an Atomos, the advantages are too numerious to put in one post. Also if your working outdoors you'll be able to see details that the LCD and view finder won't reveal. The big advantage is if your editing on a Mac the prores files are easy to work with in post.

Regards Mike
 
Mike Mas said:
If anyone's work requires 10 bit then they should invest in an Atomos, the advantages are too numerious to put in one post. Also if your working outdoors you'll be able to see details that the LCD and view finder won't reveal. The big advantage is if your editing on a Mac the prores files are easy to work with in post.

Regards Mike
Click to expand...

Process question......is there a way when using the Atomos to record redundantly to another destination in parallel (SD card, etc)?
 
The DVX200 outputs to both sources in most cases, so you can record on both the Atomos and the cameras SD card at the same time.

For safety, anytime I record 8 bit to the SD in the camera, I'll also record on the Atomos so I have a ProRes copy.

If you're recording 10 bit with the DVX200 your limited to only the HDMI to the Atomos - no high rez 10 bit recording on the SD

The Atomos has a HDMI output so you could take that to another recorder or monitor.

Mike
 
Mike Mas said:
If you're recording 10 bit with the DVX200 your limited to only the HDMI to the Atomos - no high rez 10 bit recording on the SD
Click to expand...

For further clarification - when you put the DVX200 in 10-bit mode, all internal recording is disabled. The only possible recording would be to the external recorder.
If you put the DVX200 in 8-bit mode, then internal recording is enabled, and you can simultaneously make an external 8-bit recording on an HDMI recorder.
 
Barry,

Hello - just a quick thanks for getting my account activated! Also thanks to all the users and yourself for such an informative source on Media, I've been hanging here for years and finally decided to join in.

Regards - Mike
 
Hi Mike, hope you don't mind clarifying some Atomos questions for me please? :)

1) Which Atomos should I buy? As much as I know there's several models.
2) Is the SSD/memory card included with Atomos device?
3) So, with Atomos device connected to DVX200 via HDMI port, I can start recording 2160p 50p 150mbit 10bit?
4) Can I control DVX menu with Atomos screen?
5) Is the 10 bit color improvement really worth 1500$ ? Will it really be noticed after rendering it out in 1080p for my client?

Thanx in advance!
 
AlexLF said:
Right, how do you record this without external recorder?
Click to expand...

You are of course correct, I misunderstood your post. I'm less interested in 4:2:2 recorded in-camera than I am potential sensor or lens upgrades w/some of the capabilities that we see in the GH5. A GH5 with fixed lens: seems like an ideal upgrade for the DVX. Perhaps, as many here have suggested, this is unlikely in the near term given the GH5 FW upgrade and EVA1 release. Unfortunate for me, however.
 
I couldn’t care less about GH5 or other “stills cameras that also shoot video.” Stunt camera or insert camera, maybe. But, they’re just too difficult to work with across the entire production landscape. GH5 is damn close to being a proper videocamera on the inside, but on the outside it’s still just a stills camera.

The form factor for videography is staggeringly uncomfortable, expensive and bulky to fix. A proper camcorder like DVX200 is what it’s all about. Everything you need on most shoots is right there, built-in. If at some point you need 10-bit 4:2:2, just hook up an external recorder and away you go.

DVX200 solved most of my production problems since trying to use a DSLR/mirrorless, or a cinema camera, was not the best way to go about shooting for 95% of my client work. That other 5% is cinema camera territory where I definitely need cinema lenses and cinema rigging, a crew, etc. Usually that is for my BMCC, but EVA1 will most likely replace it since it is basically a DVX200 with a lens mount, a bigger sensor, and more maleable codecs, including raw, plus Varicam color and gamut, as well as full Vlog. DVX200 might actually make a decent B-cam to EVA1, particularly on bigger docus.

But, really, even though you CAN rig out a DVX200, it sort of defeats the purpose of it being a tight, well-thought-out camcorder. This past Friday I shot docu footage of everything going down at a football game. DVX200 was on a balanced shoulder rig so I could use it like a full size ENG camcorder. The first eight hours were pleasant enough, but over the course of the last two hours my shoulder and back were beginning to protest. I can’t imagine what that would have been like having a bunch of extra bits hanging off it. Well, yeah I can. But, if I needed a better codec I’d probably just use a different camera. The biggest competitors might be FS7, Ursa Mini Pro, and EVA1. I don’t like Sony color, UMP is great but more expensive than EVA1, and EVA1 looks pretty great, too, but it isn’t out yet. EVA1 also takes the same juice and media DVX200 does. The one big thing UMP has is its interchangeable lens mount. That’s huge. But EVA1’s codecs are more efficient, arguably in some ways, and most definitely in other ways.

So, I prefer my docu cameras naked. Cinema (controlled environments), it doesn’t hurt to rig out a DVX200 to squeeze as much juice as you can from it. But, it’s Vlog-L, and the codecs are a bit light on the Mbps in places, and VFR gets a bit fuzzy, and the color might need a bit of work, but...when I’ve needed to rig out my DVX200 for, say a commercial, the images were quite lovely and it was well worth the extra weight and time during production, as well as the extra fuss in post.

Totes worth it.
 
I am with JR but hope the development continues. My best case scenario/hope is to have a two stage family of P2 level camcorders. One model built around a 1" sensor with a 20x zoom and one around a m4/3rds or s35 with a faster 8-10x zoom. It would be great if both of the bodies were smaller than the DVX200 (Px270 size or less) for easier handholding.

I say P2 level because I want them to have the better codecs and processing which result in better images than the ~$3,500 priced cameras. These would fall into the ~$5,500 price range and be interchangeable from a color/image point of view.

Imho, the DVX200 is close but it is a little large to be handholding. Lets face it, owner operators or one man banders' often have to handhold the camera. The image of the DVX200 is close as well but fell short for me. This can be improved with the price going up.

In short, this would be a working person's kit. An answer for all of your small company production needs while being more versatile than the EVA-1 which is a "cinema" camera. Panasonic, I hope you can do this because us working stiffs want to make great images but can't use the EVA-1 or DSLRs as easily as a more versatile camcorder.
 
JRJphoto said:
I couldn’t care less about GH5 or other “stills cameras that also shoot video.” Stunt camera or insert camera, maybe. But, they’re just too difficult to work with across the entire production landscape. GH5 is damn close to being a proper videocamera on the inside, but on the outside it’s still just a stills camera.

The form factor for videography is staggeringly uncomfortable, expensive and bulky to fix. A proper camcorder like DVX200 is what it’s all about. Everything you need on most shoots is right there, built-in. If at some point you need 10-bit 4:2:2, just hook up an external recorder and away you go.

DVX200 solved most of my production problems since trying to use a DSLR/mirrorless, or a cinema camera, was not the best way to go about shooting for 95% of my client work. That other 5% is cinema camera territory where I definitely need cinema lenses and cinema rigging, a crew, etc. Usually that is for my BMCC, but EVA1 will most likely replace it since it is basically a DVX200 with a lens mount, a bigger sensor, and more maleable codecs, including raw, plus Varicam color and gamut, as well as full Vlog. DVX200 might actually make a decent B-cam to EVA1, particularly on bigger docus.

But, really, even though you CAN rig out a DVX200, it sort of defeats the purpose of it being a tight, well-thought-out camcorder. This past Friday I shot docu footage of everything going down at a football game. DVX200 was on a balanced shoulder rig so I could use it like a full size ENG camcorder. The first eight hours were pleasant enough, but over the course of the last two hours my shoulder and back were beginning to protest. I can’t imagine what that would have been like having a bunch of extra bits hanging off it. Well, yeah I can. But, if I needed a better codec I’d probably just use a different camera. The biggest competitors might be FS7, Ursa Mini Pro, and EVA1. I don’t like Sony color, UMP is great but more expensive than EVA1, and EVA1 looks pretty great, too, but it isn’t out yet. EVA1 also takes the same juice and media DVX200 does. The one big thing UMP has is its interchangeable lens mount. That’s huge. But EVA1’s codecs are more efficient, arguably in some ways, and most definitely in other ways.

So, I prefer my docu cameras naked. Cinema (controlled environments), it doesn’t hurt to rig out a DVX200 to squeeze as much juice as you can from it. But, it’s Vlog-L, and the codecs are a bit light on the Mbps in places, and VFR gets a bit fuzzy, and the color might need a bit of work, but...when I’ve needed to rig out my DVX200 for, say a commercial, the images were quite lovely and it was well worth the extra weight and time during production, as well as the extra fuss in post.

Totes worth it.
Click to expand...

JR I have been following your posts for some time and completely agree. Everything about making a DSLR "work like" a proper video camera feels wrong - add-on audio, matte box, rig ... I'd rather have the complete solution.

But a good portion of what I want to shoot will be outside with occasionally low light, and I have read concerns about the DVX with low light ... and I'd sure like to see some of the weight-saving measures of the UX90 and performance additions exhibited in the GH5 make its way into the DVX. I just don't know if Panasonic will do it.

Re: your other comments: isn't the EVA1 more expensive than the UM rather than the other way around? And what about Sony color (showing my ignorance here) do you dislike?
 
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