Does APS-C delivers a more 'cinematic' look?
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John Froton
Well-known member
Barry Green has given me great info many times and he is a terrific resource. Sometimes the context is about specs and numbers and technical comparisons. With all other variables being set the same, the larger sensor would indeed yield different results. He would be the first one to tell us all to go out and shoot in the real world and see what you get in your footage and screw the specs and numbers. I think the point was more like trying to inform that the smaller APS-C sensor was indeed more of an equal match to 35mm film and not weaker choice.
The truth is that the 5D is an oddball with it's huge sensor but I don't believe he ever stated that it could not be dealt with like any other aspect of video that requires understanding implications.
The truth is that the 5D is an oddball with it's huge sensor but I don't believe he ever stated that it could not be dealt with like any other aspect of video that requires understanding implications.
But he clearly states that you can't get matching DOF with 5D which is incorrect.
John Froton
Well-known member
it really depends on how technically strict you want to get, because at matching f stops, you really can't get matching DOF. If you are super hardcore about shooting at f5.6 with a particular lens, then you will not be able to get an exact matching DOF unless you stop down to f8 for example. For practicle purposes, functionality of varying DOF is always there but I suppose there are pros that demand an exact aperture for a particular lens.
If you think like that, then you can't get matching DOF with APS-C camera either because the sensor is smaller than super 35mm.
That is definitely not the case, lol. Do you really think that pros always shoot with one camera model only and with the exact same sensor size? There are usually multiple camera models used on one movie and there are tens of camera models pros are using in different movies, every one of them with different sensor size. f-stops are there for purpose and made to be used. I can't think faster way to get fired from a movie production shooting mainly with RED One than saying you can't shoot some scenes with RED EPIC because you can't use the same f-stop.
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John Froton
Well-known member
Yes I agree with what you are saying and I would never limit myself to a single unchangeable setting and camera combo either. I would go as far to say that with a particular lens, many pros will choose repetitive f stops or a close range of f stops to get the most pleasing look from the lens itself, without regard to the camera body.
Barry_Green
Moderator
But IMAX doesn't render a look like 35mm movies...
Barry_Green
Moderator
Really? Thanks.
Yes, I'm quite aware of that little nugget of wisdom. Probably just as aware as you are that stopping down means needing 4x as much light in order to deliver the same look, right? Which means a lot more expensive lighting setup.
Look, this isn't rocket science -- the 7D sensor size renders the same FOV and DOV as 35mm movie film, period. If you want something to look like 35mm movies, the 7D sensor is the most compatible size and will give you benefits towards replicating the movie look. Can you leap through hoops and get comparable looks from 16mm? Yes, sometimes, but not always. Can you get it from a 5D? Yes, sometimes, but not always.
What's hard to understand about that?
Barry, thanks for participating here.
I think that's because the 7d is a cheaper camera. So they can't stand the fact that the 7d is a better choice for ones looking to replicate a particular 'look' of 35mm cinema.
I think that's because the 7d is a cheaper camera. So they can't stand the fact that the 7d is a better choice for ones looking to replicate a particular 'look' of 35mm cinema.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Okay, this is THREE TIMES you've made the same attack that I don't know what I'm talking about. You are aware, aren't you, that I wrote an entire article on how to use the iris to match DOF between sensor sizes?
Seriously, what is this? You've been here two years, you certainly know better. Why the repeated, outlandish attack? Is this what the internet's become?
Seriously?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Your understanding is correct. Note that we're not asserting one is "better" than another. We're saying that if you want to REPLICATE those aspects of the look of 35mm cinema, then obviously using a sensor the same size, which lets you have the same DOF and the same FOV effortlessly, is the more suitable tool.
Like I said -- this really shouldn't be hard to understand.
ISO 1250 on 5D has less noise than ISO 640 on 7D. No need for lighting setup, just bump up your ISO on 5D. If you need more light, it's with 7D when the lens can't go any faster and the noise gets bad.
Sensor size doesn't give you "movie look". That's why Fincher shoots movies with 2/3 digital cameras and Nolan uses IMAX cameras. It's the technology used on the camera that matters. If the camera technology is the same, you can do everything with the larger sensor camera you can with the smaller sensor camera. Anything larger than 35mm sensor will render the same FOV and DOF as 35mm when you stop down and use correct focal lenght.
Not sometime, always (in a situation when you can get it with 7D too).
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Do we really need opinions from people who post videos shot with RED as 7D footage?
I will answer this time though. First of all, who would buy 7D when 60D is better camera for video and costs half the price? You can get 550D which has same IQ for 1/3 the price of 7D. I think if people can't stand something, it's the narrow minded people who think inside the box and can't understand simple things like stopping down to archieve deeper DOF.
Yeah because when taking a lens from the bag it's so much harder to take the 50mm prime instead of 30mm. And it's so much more work to dial f4 instead of f2.8.
Yes, that's why you shouldn't be talking about sensor and camera differences here.Look, I thought that video was shot with 7d because I found it on a 7d vimeo group. Then I watched it and I felt the footage really looked like all the others 7d videos on vimeo.
John Froton
Well-known member
If you write people off based on this kind of simple misunderstanding then I fear you have less of an open mind than you portray yourself as having.
