Do you have grainy A1 footage?

quick question

quick question

Jay Rodriguez said:
Do yourself a favor and switch the AGC (auto gain control) OFF!

Then you might want to head into the menu selection and set your gain to -3.
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Quick Question: If -3 is good, why not -6? and also to change the kneee you do that in the custom preset as well, right?
 
bentramer81 said:
Quick Question: If -3 is good, why not -6? and also to change the kneee you do that in the custom preset as well, right?
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Well, -3 db is the lowest you can go on the A1. The gain scale is relative on each camera because it depends on what the manufacturer chooses to refer to as 0db. Canon's -3 db might be the equivalent of Pannasonic's 0db. But even there it's not the same; it's the point where you get the most light at a decent image quality.

And knee has nothing to do with gain; it controls highlight fall off.
 
Thanks...yes apparently auto is the problem

Thanks...yes apparently auto is the problem

Thanks for all the replied...meanwhile someone else had also told me that setting the gain to auto, especially indoors, is a very bad idea. Obviously in really good light it's fine and the noise is not a problem...but indoors, manual is the way to go an keeping it at -3DB is best...beyond that, investing in a simple off camera light that you can bounce off the ceiling, is a good solution
 
i think there's a little more to it then setting gain to -3 like people are saying here, I don't think that is it
 
Sure thompson, but that is probably the "hidden secret" that you might forget easily, and probably the most common factor, so it's still the nr one thing imo, but ofcourse, all the lightning settings on your camera plays a role, but I think we're just assuming everyone is aware of that already, which might not be to "bright" of us, (HEHE ><) but ohwell :)
 
First, I am new to this site but Ive learned a lot already from it. I own the A1 and this post is much helpful. Im here for other things as well, like Compositing and 3D.

It would be nice to know other settings that will optimize the picture on this camera.
 
Ditto on that Pumatrax. I just turned off my AGC and was amazed how much less noisey the image was. Thanks DVXuser!
 
RegiVest Productions said:
Im using my 4 months old XH-A1. The AGC is turned off, gain is -3, and still my friend's HV 30 gives him a less grainy picture. Why ?
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have you compared your footage on the same playback device as the hv30?....there may be some variables you need to be more specific on before we can answer that question....presets, white balance, iris, settings you both use, etc....the A1 being superior in manual controls, both in-cam and on the lens should acheive a better picture, though the HV30 is said to be a great b-cam for the A1 because of it's scaled-down functionality, within the Canon family of HDV cams. let us know!

-chris
 
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I have played around with custom presets and after some adjusting I got stunning results. Even in low light! I also found out that the screen on my iMac has brightness/contrast that gives me grain, but when I see the same clip on my hdtv on a dvd I get amazing quality ! I love the A1
 
RegiVest Productions said:
Im using my 4 months old XH-A1. The AGC is turned off, gain is -3, and still my friend's HV 30 gives him a less grainy picture. Why ?
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Have you tried to adjust your sharpness. I have ran into this, by adjusting the sharpness, setting the gain to the lowest as possible, I was able to have a cleaner image. I could have changed something else and made it cleaner, I just press buttons when I change my settings, until I get what I like. Less sharpness created a smoother effect and high sharpess seemed to make the grain pop more in low light.
 
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I'm new to both this forum and video production in general, but I operate a company which has been doing internet video streaming for years, so this is sort of a natural extension.

My question for this thread is: When using a DOF adapter and dealing with light loss and poor event lighting, how do you best control gain? (You might suggest that I not use the adapter, but I'm really hoping to leave the rig assembled at all times, and shoot with the adapater even when I don't need/want DOF.)

I just got my rig finally assembled on Friday, then took it to a violin event Saturday to begin practicing, and the most irritating thing for me was the lack of quick, precise gain control. Everything else was okay. I used a Nikkor F2.8 lens (will probably look for a faster F1.2 or F1.4 after having gain issues, not that a faster lens will be a complete solution, but it won't hurt), with an older Letus Flip I bought used, attached to an XH-A1. I shot at F2.8 on the Nikkor, F2.6 with 1/30 shutter, 30FP on the XH-A1. I wasn't getting good light, but I shot that way for awhile, and then turned on AGC for the rest of the event. I felt like with AGC on everything was brightened a little too much. I will capture and check the footage today, and I suspect I'll not be happy with the AGC footage.

My gripe is that I had no fine tune control over gain, unless I'm missing something obvious. The manual gain switch gave me +3 db at high. I understand I can change the L/M/H values for that switch, but if you're in a pinch, and have no recourse but to use gain, I sure would have prefered to dial up the gain manually with all stops handily available.

How do you guys handle this? I can see it taking forever to determine the proper gain setting if you can't avoid using gain. Say I have the high gain set to +3, but it's too low. Maybe +6 is too high, but I go to the menus to set the high value to +6, then see it's too high, go back in and change it to a lower value, etc. What a pain! There must be a better way? (I don't even know if there is a gain stop between 3 and 6, that's just an example.)

I didn't even see a way to view the current gain setting with AGC on, but hopefully that's a display setting that I can turn on somewhere, even if it's in a custom display profile.
 
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1) don't shoot with an adapter if you don't have sufficient light. What is the point of getting shallow depth of field if you have no light to shoot with?

2) the only way to go is with those 3 switch dials, there is nothing else.

I suggest if you are doing professional work that requires you to use gain with an adapter, that you reconsider if an adapter is the right way for you to work. Sounds to me like you're choosing depth of field over image quality.

Adapters are generally to be used in controlled lighting environments. Reception halls and concerts are probably the weakest place to use an adapter, especially when you lose control over the lighting and removing the ability to use the camera's zoom function.

If you are doing documentary, indoors, without lighting, i say get rid of the adapter. It will only work against you.
 
PaPa said:
1) don't shoot with an adapter if you don't have sufficient light. What is the point of getting shallow depth of field if you have no light to shoot with?
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DOF isn't the issue at all, leaving the rig assembled is. Call it laziness, but I just don't want to have to rebuild the rig for DOF shooting - I'd rather leave it together at all times.

I think I can get good footage without DOF with focus set to infinity for most things. I can switch out 35mm lenses for the proper field of view easier than disassembling the entire rig. The only issue becomes gain for indoor event shooting, so I have to work out whether I really want to leave the rig assembled and deal with lighting constraints, or deal with tearing down the rig.

Bear in mind I have an older Letus Flip adapter, and the entire thing has to be unscrewed from the XH-A1, no intermediate attachment to simplify that like on later models. That means both the adapter and camera have to come off the rails and then be separated. The threads on the adapter have a real tight fit to the XH-A1, and I'm concerned that I'll wear out the threads if I work them too much. Eventually I'll add another XH-A1 to the mix and I won't have to worry about it - I'm just trying to get by for now leaving the rig together. (Camera, DOF adapter, Matte Box and Follow Focus on 24" rails with shoulder and tripod attachments, with monitor to be added soon.)
 
Hi, Im having trouble with my 24f footage from the A1.
When I capture it in FCP 5, I play the footage and the video is playing faster than the sound. Like in FFW. Its like a 1920 movie.
I have tried everything.

Somebody help!!!
 
I'm not familiar with how FCP handles 24F but, 24F is really 23.97fps. My NLE let's me choose between 24fps and 23.97. This is only a theory, but if you set up a timeline with 24fps, and the footage is really 23.97, the video would play slightly faster than recorded.
 
Hi guys,

Im new to the film world and just learning as much as I can and experiment. I noticed that xh-a1 can produce very grainy results, especially when the LCD screen seems to make everything look okay until you upload on computer and you pull that horrifying face of OMG what have I done.

Perhaps Im being over critical and then perhaps not but am a little concerned about my camera thinking Ive got the only faulty Canon camera in the world... yes I blame my tools alot, couldnt be my crappy film skills lol.

So here is just a quick random test shot shot from my office desk. No lighting, no colour correction, just the raw footage except with Disjecta preset. I made sure of the following:

Gain set to low, programmed to be -3db
AGC set to off
Knee on chosen preset set to low (was already on this preset but I double checked anyway)

So here is the quick result

http://vimeo.com/3002319
passsword: dvxuser

I still think some aspects are a little grainy, is this the norm or what it typically accepted with this cam, and is it corrected with good light set up and some gamma correction in post.

Any idea would be great as Im worrying I have a defected camera
 
I just hate this camera.

The LCD is a useless pile of crap... the View Finder is even more worthless..

sigh...
 
noisy

noisy

hi, i'm belgian, so sorry for my english which is quite bad, but i red this topic, and i always have some problems with the a1, my agc turned off , and the gain is set to -3db but there is always noise on my footages, i tried to set the knee on low and the sharpness down, i tried so many settings but without succes, i used to believe that -3 db equal no noise ever, am i wrong?

i don't know what i can do, do you think it's a problem with my a1? i hope someone will be able to help me here....
 
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