did i make i mistake choosing to use vintage manual lens?

roei z

roei z

Veteran
i hope not, but i need to be sure:
does using vintage manual lens, that have no modern support for stabilization etc,
can cause more wobble effect while shooting hand held ?
this is my main reason for using GH2, for narrative work.
but i tend to see wobbling in almost every unpredictable movement. gets very annoying.
so i started thinking i might have made a mistake not investing in any modern supported lens.
(and also, no one here warned me it was something to consider... )

thanks
 
Wobble? You mean shaky picture?
If yes, well what do you expect with a tiny, lightweight camera in your hands? Steadycam performance?
The antishake device in modern lenses only helps, if you don´t move around the camera - no pans, no tilts.
Otherwise you run in all sorts of wired picture effects.
Get a tripod and a decent fluid head and you are fine with vintage lenses.

If you mean wobble like in jello - that´s an other problem, but has nothing to do with vintage lenses.
Look, all the pro lenses are manual - vintage or modern - and they work just great.
You are not gonna find any "antishake" stuff in Zeiss primes and similar gear.
Actually I never used any antishake lenses and never had a problem, cause I don´t run around
with the camera in my hands. Just because it is a DSLR, it doesn't mean you don't need a tripod, shoulder rig, bean bag or whatever.

hope that helps, Frank
 
Postmaster said:
If you mean wobble like in jello - that´s an other problem, but has nothing to do with vintage lenses.
Look, all the pro lenses are manual - vintage or modern - and they work just great.
You are not gonna find any "antishake" stuff in Zeiss primes and similar gear.
Actually I never used any antishake lenses and never had a problem, cause I don´t run around
with the camera in my hands. Just because it is a DSLR, it doesn't mean you don't need a tripod, shoulder rig, bean bag or whatever.

hope that helps, Frank
Click to expand...

thanks..
so you're saying from experience that lens stabilization does not help with jello ?
 
Well, it does help, but you are supposed to use some stabilisation rig anyway. Like a tripod or a shoulder rig, or a steadicam. Don't shoot out of your bare hands.
 
Image stabilization in modern lenses is a bit forgiving if you shoot handheld. Don't expect miracles, but it is definitely better than with IS off.
Just to illustrate this, check a clip I shot with the 550d kit lens, completely handheld. I have also used the Final Cut Pro Motion stabilization function which smoothed out all the remaining wooble (the output is then 720p): http://www.vimeo.com/17199032
Handheld is doable. However, it is always better to try using a support. If you can use a tripod, Image stabilization is not an advantage. If you use a dslr cage, shoulder rig, monopod etc, maybe Image stabilization helps a great deal.
I wouldn't use modern lenses only for the image stabilization though if I am satisfied with the image I get from a vintage lens, I'd rather try to improve my shooting style by using support sytems.
 
kostas said:
Image stabilization in modern lenses is a bit forgiving if you shoot handheld. Don't expect miracles, but it is definitely better than with IS off.
Just to illustrate this, check a clip I shot with the 550d kit lens, completely handheld. I have also used the Final Cut Pro Motion stabilization function which smoothed out all the remaining wooble (the output is then 720p): http://www.vimeo.com/17199032
Handheld is doable. However, it is always better to try using a support. If you can use a tripod, Image stabilization is not an advantage. If you use a dslr cage, shoulder rig, monopod etc, maybe Image stabilization helps a great deal.
I wouldn't use modern lenses only for the image stabilization though if I am satisfied with the image I get from a vintage lens, I'd rather try to improve my shooting style by using support sytems.
Click to expand...

i will use some kind of chest supporter, but generally my style is docu-style improvised shooting... and there are tiny uncontrollable shakes - which are the main cause for this kind of jello (if you play the footage frame by frame it's very obvious that the vidow is doing little "jello streches" all the time)
 
So called "docu-style" doesn't mean 90s MTV like roller coaster camera.
I edit professional docus since 20 years. 99% of the material was shot with a proper pro shouldercam
or a tripod. Even classic run and gun ENG work is done that way.

Actually there is no such thing as a shaky "docu-style", but there are tons of kids with DSLRs out there that think
they can reinvent the wheel, by just dumping everything that is known about proper camera operation.

Do yourself a favor and don't try to do a steadycam job without a steadycam.

Frank
 
Postmaster said:
So called "docu-style" doesn't mean 90s MTV like roller coaster camera.
I edit professional docus since 20 years. 99% of the material was shot with a proper pro shouldercam
or a tripod. Even classic run and gun ENG work is done that way.

Actually there is no such thing as a shaky "docu-style", but there are tons of kids with DSLRs out there that think
they can reinvent the wheel, by just dumping everything that is known about proper camera operation.

Do yourself a favor and don't try to do a steadycam job without a steadycam.

Frank
Click to expand...

ok, but even if you use some kind of basic steadycam, little uncontrollable shakes are bound to happen here and there.. i wanted to know if lens stabilize eliminates them.

*will cheaper options like these: Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8
have stabilization via an adapter? or i will have to buy 4/3 lens for that?
 
Last edited:
IS makes a huge difference to me, but I shoot a lot of handheld. If you are using a support then yes IS will help but is not as necessary. It really depends on what focal length you are shooting at.
 
will cheaper options like these: Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8
have stabilization via an adapter? or i will have to buy 4/3 lens for that?

anybody?
 
The m43 options work today. No other brand of OIS works yet, we will have to wait for an electronic translating adapter to actually become available on the market before we can definitively say that it will work.
 
Barry_Green said:
The m43 options work today. No other brand of OIS works yet, we will have to wait for an electronic translating adapter to actually become available on the market before we can definitively say that it will work.
Click to expand...

damn... it leaves me with 1000$ options :(
 
I've had really good luck with the 14-140 with OIS on, and the EVF up to my eye for a 3rd point of contact. That's the only way on any DLSR that I've been able to get usable (in my opinion) handheld footage WITHOUT a dedicated rig. But I prefer a rig anyway... every once in a while with non-rig handheld, I'll see some jello slip in there, especially on the telephoto end of the 14-140.
 
it leaves me with 1000$ options :(
Click to expand...
Well... I mean... no camera has ever had the ability to use any other lens's stabilization, has it? You can't use Canon stabilization on a Nikon, you can't use Pentax stabilization on a Canon, you can't use Sony stabilization on an Olympus. It's something that's never been an option (unless I'm missing something). The idea of that we might possibly be able to do it on a GH1/Gh2/AF100 is a breakthrough.
 
Barry_Green said:
Well... I mean... no camera has ever had the ability to use any other lens's stabilization, has it? You can't use Canon stabilization on a Nikon, you can't use Pentax stabilization on a Canon, you can't use Sony stabilization on an Olympus. It's something that's never been an option (unless I'm missing something). The idea of that we might possibly be able to do it on a GH1/Gh2/AF100 is a breakthrough.
Click to expand...

yea i realized that.. wishful thinking.. thanks. i took a chance not buying the 14-140 kit lens (also for it's slowness),
so now i'm kinda stuck with the FD's, which are perfect for me except the lack of OIS and therefore more jello
 
roei z said:
i hope not, but i need to be sure:
does using vintage manual lens, that have no modern support for stabilization etc,
can cause more wobble effect while shooting hand held ?
this is my main reason for using GH2, for narrative work.
but i tend to see wobbling in almost every unpredictable movement. gets very annoying.
so i started thinking i might have made a mistake not investing in any modern supported lens.
(and also, no one here warned me it was something to consider... )

thanks
Click to expand...

Ever done target practice? Handheld camera work requires the same steadiness of handling as with a rifle, or pistol.

The following should be considered:

1) focal length used (ether fixed or zoomed) if the effective focal length is long, more 'shake' will be apparent. Handheld should be shorter focal lenghts, and close to the subject.
2) Small 'shake', vs. 'big wobble'. No 'smart lens' will fix the latter. The anti-shake features of lenses are for small, possible 'fast' shakes, not big or somewhat slow.
3) Old lens could have a loose element or the adapter+lens could have a loose mounting, which could be more noticeable handheld.
4) Camera operator's age... unfortunately with age, the hand tremors get more noticeable...
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
Ever done target practice? Handheld camera work requires the same steadiness of handling as with a rifle, or pistol.

The following should be considered:

1) focal length used (ether fixed or zoomed) if the effective focal length is long, more 'shake' will be apparent. Handheld should be shorter focal lenghts, and close to the subject.
2) Small 'shake', vs. 'big wobble'. No 'smart lens' will fix the latter. The anti-shake features of lenses are for small, possible 'fast' shakes, not big or somewhat slow.
3) Old lens could have a loose element or the adapter+lens could have a loose mounting, which could be more noticeable handheld.
4) Camera operator's age... unfortunately with age, the hand tremors get more noticeable...
Click to expand...

thanks for all this info. i am very aware of most of it.
i do mean exactly those little unavoidable shakes that cause the wobble. it seems i must have OIS for my kind of shooting.. :(
 
Start using this (Deshaker) and practice with anything less than 50mm and you should be ok...
 
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