GH4 Delivering "4k"...

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wwjd

Well-known member
how do you do it? Anyone delivering 4K files for playback on new 4K TV? I can't find info on doing that and haven't successfully done it yet. I'm talking about edited / final rendered 4K stuff, not just hooking the camera up for playback from camera, or playing files on PC...

I plan to talk to TV vendors and try to find something out - formats and such. BUt anyone doing this already successfully?

I am already aware of Youtube 4K, and file sharing online - wondering about TV playback
 
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Explain how you are able to do that? USB? Playback box? Laptop via HDMI?

TV companies are not giving out much info on type of 4K file types they playback, and SONY even has a special box to DOWNLOAD content from them. I have not been able to just put a 4K file on a USB and have it work.
 
all 4k tvs are smart tvs, and have access to youtube. so far, I am uploading in 4k to youtube and playing via that. hopefully vimeo will soon have a smart tv app. I have not tried usb or other options.
 
I've been fearing the QUALITY of Youtube compressed 4k... how bad is it? Other than the stuttering/buffering/waiting to playback....
 
wwjd said:
I have not been able to just put a 4K file on a USB and have it work.
Click to expand...

I am surprised by this. I would think a USB stick, maybe USB 3, should work. Perhaps try different encoding with not very high bit-rates. The TV manual or the TV brand forums might help pinpoint what are the restrictions. I can't say I have done this, but it is something I will make sure works before buying a 4K TV. Does it work if you connect the camera to the TV? Al
 
The TVs I researched say things like "USB plays back MP4, MOV, WMV" but they don't say it plays HD ONLY. But that is it. 4K is too big, too new, too un-standardized for them to agree on, I think. Samsung uses 4 files of HD ABCD quadrants to playback stuff - I've read... not sure, but doubt if most TVs are doing USB 3 but maybe that would help?

Plugging a camera in HDMI works great. You can view LIVE 4K, play back clips as well. But I want to edit, finish and somehow playback on 4K TV, maybe like at a presentation or something, or at home if I get a 4K TV.

Also, I was unable to edit a finished file in a format similar to what the camera kicks out. Camera was not able to play my RENDERED EDITED file back to a TV. Didn't like the format or bitrate etc.

I've seen SONY has a little box loaded up with 4K demo stuff they play back at Best Buy, but that box doesn't have an input that I could figure out.

4K blu-ray is coming maybe someday, but what can we use right now?

I'll add, SOME of the smart TVs ofering youtube are not actually 4K... there is a lack of resolution choice, and it looks less than good. I'm sure some do offer youtube 4k, but I have not seen them yet.

AND MORE UPDATES (now that I am revisiting this again):

SONY improved their page about this: https://sony-paa-pa-en-web--paa.cus...layback-through-usb-input-or-streamed-through
also see link on that page to another page with many specifics about codecs, bitrate etc!

Sounds like HEVC/H.265 may work via USB
And DIVX has some kind of converter
http://www.divx.com/en/software/hevc-plugin
 
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Like mentioned above. Best way to play back 4k footage on 4k TV would either be usb stick or drive (as long as the TV recognizes the file). Or play it back via laptop that has hdmi out. 4k player is current limited.
 
I would just copy the rendered video to a laptop, lay the file with VLC Player and send the signal to the TV over HDMI.

Strange to see that 4K is so close, yet so far away from 'normal usage'.
 
Most 4K TVs don't support playing 4K via the USB port. And of course any DVD/Bluray disc would not be 4K yet. And also most 4K TVs don't stream 4K through the internet (YT).

So the only port you can use to get 4K into the TV is the HDMI port. You need something that can send the 4K file through HDMI, like a computer or laptop, or a camera, or a manufacturer's dedicated box etc. So just use a laptop as an intermediate step between the memory stick/flashdrive/harddisk/YT and the TV.
 
It seems that newer TV can in fact play 4K through the USB port. So that's an ideal solution.

Click "compatiable products" to see those not supporting 4K USB.

https://sony-paa-pa-en-web--paa.cus...2LzEvdGltZS8xNDE4MTY2NjE2L3NpZC8zOTJuMnY5bQ==

and these do support USB 4K (Both H.264 and H.265, click Codecs Supported for full list)
https://sony-paa-pa-en-web--paa.cus...layback-through-usb-input-or-streamed-through


Of course this is just one manufacturer. So the bottom line is to ask/research whether the specific TV you're getting supports playing 4K video through USB or just HDMI, which is something that never crossed my mind so thank you for starting the thread and making us research! I wish manufacturers were more clear about such important information regarding their products.
 
Sadly, there is a massive gap in the 4k HOME/CONSUMER distribution workflow....and it impacts all of us filmmakers and content producers; We must find unique solutions to get our content on good old (or new in this case) TV's.

On one side you have 4K TV's (lets get technical and call it UHD4k) being marketed to you and I on air, on websites, on the radio...etc. Heck - I just found a 2nd gen 4k 60" at Best Buy for $1600 bucks! I'm sure you can find even better deals from now until Christmas!

On the other side you have all these 4k consumer ready Cameras like the Gh4, Sony A7, Hitachi, Olympus etc etc.

But in the middle we have this giant hole! No Physical disk media can play back 4k and there won't be until there is a 4KBlu-ray standard....a YEAR from now (hopefully) No broadcast company will even touch 4K for at least another 4 years (trust me...I work in broadcast for the peacock and we are still recovering the costs to upgrade to 1080p 8 or so years ago. When I ask about 4K no one even wants to talk about it). Google provides a 4k Upload but it is compressed down quite a bit. Vimeo JUST announced that they are finally trasnscoding in 4K - but still no streaming 4K - so the announcement amounts to "nothing has changed" because you could download original 4k files for awhile now ( https://vimeo.com/blog/post:664 )

So....4K is a sorted tale when it comes to watching your content on those beuatiful 4K TV's. Sony has a 4K media player, and I have confirmed that it plays Mp4 files that are transferred to it's internal hard 1Tb drive via USB (my bro has that setup)...but the menu is clunky and horrible and choices for 4K content are for Sony titles only. That USB stick right to the Sony TV seems like a simpler solution. 60mbs isn't horrible but I'd prefer 100mbs for quality.
 
Sony claims to playback via USB with proper file type. I think SAMSUNG will to once we figure out what it needs. I'll keep this up to date when I learn more with live trials.

It is just not all quick and simple yet like HD is now. Wondered if anyone else has messed with it yet.

(oops posted before I saw page 2)


Danial, remind anyone who will listen over there, the competition (Netflix) is offering 4K today.
 
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My Samsung 55" 4K tv will play 4K films that i make with power director 13 and render 3840 x 2160 25p 50mbps on to external drives, i find also blu ray copys from the films are realy good,far bettter than previous 1920x1080P blu rays.
 
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Not much different than the situation we faced when HD first came out. Before we had HD-DVD and Blu-Ray we had no way of actually delivering HD content to the people that had HDTV's. It was years before we had a decent option. By the time time the HD optical disc war was over it still took some time before recordable Blu-Ray was mainstream enough to become a decent option for delivery. Since the 4k movement is moving much slower and doesn't get to ride the US mandate to switch TV to all digital I suspect it will be an even longer process to get a decent 4k delivery system.

I also question if we will ever see a 4k optical disc format. Depending on who you talk to (Apple) there is the belief that optical is dead. We very well could be moving into a file based only option for 4k delivery. This is fine except it creates a fragmented industry where we have to cater to a bunch of odd systems and standards to deliver. Mass delivery is pretty much out of the question unless it is streamed (read very expensive).
 
I agree.

At least some TVs are giving out some specifications now. I'll keep bugging manufacturers.... if they want content, they gotta get us info on HOW to get it on thier TVs
 
Not to derail the OPs question because it is a legitimate technical issue, but I wonder if the client you are delivering to would even notice the difference if you just delivered 1080p. Unless the set is huge, and someone is getting up close to the TV (to the point that you can no longer see the whole image at once), is there a perceptible difference? In my experience, no- which is why I have no interest in delivering that forma. But I'm curious what you guys think. Is this a "because you can" thing, or do you really feel like it makes a difference?
 
I have no clients, so it is mostly for me and paving the future. Got a 4K camera so I could produce 4K content - which I really love the look of... then I find I can't play it back everywhere, specifically the newly selling 4K TVs. I'd hoped they learned all they needed to while setting up HD and simply branch off that for 4K, but I find that not so true.

Making Teen Cop 004K in 4K to show off 4K, but finding it hard to do. :) Youtube is compressed, and transmission is just not there yet. I naively assumed I could drop 4K on to a USB drive and plug it in to most 4K TVs but they are not there yet.

Personally, I can SEE the difference in 4K and HD, even on the upscaled "enhanced" TVs.

Doesn't sound like too many peeps are staying in 4K... just wondering if anyone else is running in to this and working with it.
 
wwjd said:
I have no clients, so it is mostly for me and paving the future. Got a 4K camera so I could produce 4K content - which I really love the look of... then I find I can't play it back everywhere, specifically the newly selling 4K TVs. I'd hoped they learned all they needed to while setting up HD and simply branch off that for 4K, but I find that not so true.

Making Teen Cop 004K in 4K to show off 4K, but finding it hard to do. :) Youtube is compressed, and transmission is just not there yet. I naively assumed I could drop 4K on to a USB drive and plug it in to most 4K TVs but they are not there yet.

Personally, I can SEE the difference in 4K and HD, even on the upscaled "enhanced" TVs.

Doesn't sound like too many peeps are staying in 4K... just wondering if anyone else is running in to this and working with it.
Click to expand...

The whole "is 4K actually relevant to the market" thing has been hashed out many times, so I don't want to open that can of worms again. But I think the general consensus is that many of us are recording 4K to deliver 1080p because no one really cares about 4k as a delivery format. I don't think any of my colleagues actually shooting in the format have ever actually released anything to it, aside from uploading to youtube in 4K "just because I can". I can say that personally, if I click 4k on a youtube video and lean in up close I can see the difference. But at a standard viewing distance from my screen (as in, where I can see the whole thing at once), 1080p is already more-or-less retina sized.

I posted this a while back during one of the initial discussions on the topic:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...sumers&p=1986378413&viewfull=1#post1986378413

To me, 4k is a marketing gimmick for consumers- If the majority of theatrical releases are still only 2.5k, I really don't believe a consumer-sized living room TV is going to benefit from it. And that's why this space is taking so long to standardize a delivery format. That's just my 2 cents, have tons more to say on it but don't want to hijack your thread. The techie in me wishes you could find a better answer, but the practical person in me believes this is an uphill battle.
 
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