GH4 Delaying shoot for GH5?

J

joe12south

Veteran
Anyone else contemplating delaying a shoot for the GH5? I know that's usually a silly thing to do, but at this point I feel like I know what I can expect from Panasonic in terms of bumps with a new GH camera. I'm assuming I can be comfortable with the GH5's new menus in a day or two.

This particular shoot (a feature) schedule is totally in my control and would definitely benefit from being shot with two GH5's instead of two GH4's. As the rest of my kit can stay exactly the same, and I'll have my GH4's as back-ups, this seems like a reasonable gamble.

Am I crazy? Talk me down form the ledge.
 
joe12south said:
Anyone else contemplating delaying a shoot for the GH5?
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Yes, I'm considering it, if only for the improved V-Log performance and IS. But it really depends on how quickly Pana ramps up production. Based on previous releases, there could be a bit of a wait.

But if it really is under your control and anyone involved is cool with the wait, I'm not talking you down from anywhere.....:happy:
 
The GH5 will have some nice new features. For me the big one is 400 Mb/s 4K with 10 bit 4:2:2 color, which won't be available until the end of summer (at best).

But there are also a couple drawbacks in that the Dynamic Range of the GH5 will likely not be significantly improved over the GH4, which compared to my current camera of choice, the BMPCC, is severely lacking. Further, the noise induced by V-Log on the GH4 was untenable, and there is speculation that such will also not see any significant improvement on the GH5.

So for myself, the fall reviews are a must have before purchase. That's a good sized delay. You really want to wait that long?
 
I was considering the purchase of two ninja assassins to give me 10-bit 4K. But the thought of having cameras capable of 4K HDR capture have all but sealed the deal for me.

Now I have to figure out how to shift a production schedule from Q2 to Q3 and still have deliverables done by mid Q4 :cry:
 
Jim Simon said:
The GH5 will have some nice new features. For me the big one is 400 Mb/s 4K with 10 bit 4:2:2 color, which won't be available until the end of summer (at best).

But there are also a couple drawbacks in that the Dynamic Range of the GH5 will likely not be significantly improved over the GH4, which compared to my current camera of choice, the BMPCC, is severely lacking. Further, the noise induced by V-Log on the GH4 was untenable, and there is speculation that such will also not see any significant improvement on the GH5.

So for myself, the fall reviews are a must have before purchase. That's a good sized delay. You really want to wait that long?
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- 4:2:2 10 bit is important to me, but 400 Mbps all-i is not. (I'll be transcoding only the good takes to ProRes.) so I don't need to delay until fall, just April.
- I'm shooting a narrative feature with controlled lighting. Based on Luke Neumann's samples, I'm fairly confident that V-LOG L at 1600 ISO is going to be very usable - but I doubt I'll be shooting above 800 for this particular shoot.
- Lackluster dynamic range is indeed a real bummer. This shoot leans on a somewhat unique dual-camera set-up that would be unnecessarily difficult with larger cameras, otherwise I would probably rent 2 Ursa mini 4.6k's. Again, I'm controlling the lighting, so clean 12 stops should suffice.

Some of the new features that will greatly add to this shoot are:

- 4:2:2 10 bit without an external recorder (size)
- Programmable rack focusing (still can't believe they actually added this!)
- Full sensor read-out (need to shoot wide, any reduction in crop helps)
- Better wireless control (cameras are going to be right in the middle of the actors, so this allows me to get out of the way.)
- Dual-cards (backup footage!)
 
estarkey7 said:
I was considering the purchase of two ninja assassins to give me 10-bit 4K. But the thought of having cameras capable of 4K HDR capture have all but sealed the deal for me.

Now I have to figure out how to shift a production schedule from Q2 to Q3 and still have deliverables done by mid Q4 :cry:
Click to expand...

The GH4 is already capable of HDR capture with V-LOG L. The only difference with the GH5 will be the broadcast HGL profile which will eventually make it easier to integrate HDR equipment into REC709 pipelines.
 
joe12south said:
Anyone else contemplating delaying a shoot for the GH5? I know that's usually a silly thing to do, but at this point I feel like I know what I can expect from Panasonic in terms of bumps with a new GH camera. I'm assuming I can be comfortable with the GH5's new menus in a day or two.

This particular shoot (a feature) schedule is totally in my control and would definitely benefit from being shot with two GH5's instead of two GH4's. As the rest of my kit can stay exactly the same, and I'll have my GH4's as back-ups, this seems like a reasonable gamble.

Am I crazy? Talk me down form the ledge.
Click to expand...
Talk you off the ledge? Nah, jump my friend!!

I would advocate exactly what you are suggesting, since the schedule is within your control.

Plus, internal 10bit 4:2:2, 60p 4K for any slomo shots you want, better encoder, etc.

For a feature film, getting 10bit footage for post is a godsend, so I would also wait, and take the leap as soon as I got the cameras. Also, there will be better dynamic range, even if it's just a little bit, along with better noise profile. Add the Speed Booster and nice primes and I bet this is going to be a great upgrade, well worth the wait.

Plus, more script refinement and pre-production time!! :D

Just my 2c as a narrative film director and shooter.

Paul :)
 
Jim Simon said:
The GH5 will have some nice new features. For me the big one is 400 Mb/s 4K with 10 bit 4:2:2 color, which won't be available until the end of summer (at best).

But there are also a couple drawbacks in that the Dynamic Range of the GH5 will likely not be significantly improved over the GH4, which compared to my current camera of choice, the BMPCC, is severely lacking. Further, the noise induced by V-Log on the GH4 was untenable, and there is speculation that such will also not see any significant improvement on the GH5.

So for myself, the fall reviews are a must have before purchase. That's a good sized delay. You really want to wait that long?
Click to expand...

While 12 stops is not spectacular I would not exactly call it severely lacking. The original RED ONE camera was 12 stops and used for a lot of high end productions. I wish it was a bit higher but 12 is not bad to work with.

I wouldn't say noise isn't reduced with V-log on the GH5. The signal to noise ratio is better on the GH5 and it overall so far seems to have a cleaner look. All the samples I have seen minus 1 were very clean with V-log. The one that wasn't under exposed a lot of the shot to protect the sky detail. Crushing the darks eliminated most of it. Its hard to tell from a few samples but I would say the noise with V-log has been improved. Even the internal 8 bit samples were not as bad as those on the GH4.
 
Thanks, Paul. For this particular shoot, my speedbooster and cine lenses are going to stay in the Pelican case. It's going to be a very intimate shoot with a custom rig inspired by the Cohen Bro's that will float in-between two actors. One camera facing one actor, one camera facing the other. By using GH cameras with wide native lenses I'll be able to put the viewer right in the middle of the dialogue within one take.

Technically it's doable with a bigger rig (hell, people have done it with film cameras) but by keeping the rig as small as possible, and pulling focus remotely, I'll be able to get out of the way and let the actors act.
 
If you will not lose any money by delaying I say go for it.

Normally I would say the camera matters much less on a production then the talent behind and in front of the camera but I know how much you dislike V-log internal on the GH4. From an external perspective I expect the IQ increase to be marginal. From an internal V-log perspective it will be massive. So far the two 150mbps 10bit shots we have really impressed me. I see some artifacts but when scaled for a 1080p delivery they mostly go away. This is with firmware 0.43 or even earlier so it could get better as we get closer to FW1.0.

Will the GH5 completely change the production? Probably not. Your talent is still the same, the talent of your actors is still the same. I assume you will light it the same. In the end you gain 10bit (without using an external recorder which you could do easily with the GH4) and a bit better high frequency detail and a bit better signal to noise ratio. While those things are important I wouldn't consider them a must.

I agree with your wider FOV. In your particular situation that will help you a lot.
 
My two biggest risks:

1. Lose my actors due to scheduling conflict (but I sort of have that risk no matter what.)
2. Lose a day of shooting before I realize I need to fall back to GH4's with external recorders.
 
Joe,
"Programmable rack focusing (still can't believe they actually added this!)"

Are we sure how this was implemented? Can you control when the rack starts? What I read may have been vague but it almost seemed like it began upon roll.
 
Gweilo66 said:
Joe,
"Programmable rack focusing (still can't believe they actually added this!)"

Are we sure how this was implemented? Can you control when the rack starts? What I read may have been vague but it almost seemed like it began upon roll.
Click to expand...

We're not sure, but it sounds like pre-roll you set can set multiple (4, I think) focus points, and then during recording you can go to any of those focus points with a touch, at a wide variety of speeds ranging from as fast as the lens can move, to VERY slow.

If I can do this from the iOS app, I'll be able to block my actors and then get the hell out of the way.
 
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