GH4 Delaying shoot for GH5?

[joe12south]

That won't eliminate artifacts in the original image induced by an insufficient bitrate. (Though with your subject matter, that might not be a concern.)

Not a concern. I find the GH4's bitrate perfectly acceptable for 24P/Cine-D shooting in most scenarios. (Though not for internal V-LOG L.) Based on the samples so far, the GH5's additional bandwidth allows for a similar quality level in similar scenarios with V-LOG L.

 

[Shenan]

Might the improved image stabilization AND rolling shutter also be helpful for your shoot? Or will it all be locked down? I'm not familiar with the rig you described, and you did mention "float".

 

[rob norton]

Anyone else contemplating delaying a shoot for the GH5? I know that's usually a silly thing to do, but at this point I feel like I know what I can expect from Panasonic in terms of bumps with a new GH camera. I'm assuming I can be comfortable with the GH5's new menus in a day or two.

This particular shoot (a feature) schedule is totally in my control and would definitely benefit from being shot with two GH5's instead of two GH4's. As the rest of my kit can stay exactly the same, and I'll have my GH4's as back-ups, this seems like a reasonable gamble.

Am I crazy? Talk me down form the ledge.

Yes Joe, you are crazy. Be excited to shoot your project, not about a camera that you don't have access to. Not a single viewer will care or appreciate that you delayed the shoot for the GH5, and they're supposedly the reason why (plus personal reasons) you're making a movie in the first place. If your project isn't a success because you opted to use GH4s over GH5s then that's a production nobody will be interested in anyway.

 

[joe12south]

Yes Joe, you are crazy. Be excited to shoot your project, not about a camera that you don't have access to. Not a single viewer will care or appreciate that you delayed the shoot for the GH5, and they're supposedly the reason why (plus personal reasons) you're making a movie in the first place. If your project isn't a success because you opted to use GH4s over GH5s then that's a production nobody will be interested in anyway.

I hear ya, I really do. The only reason I am considering such a delay is because it's possible that the GH5 may allow me to capture meaningfully better performances.

Motivated camera work is very important to telling this story cinematically...and if I don't do that, then I'd might as well stage it as a play. Film is a technical medium. It's impossible to separate out technique from artistic intent.

The question I have to answer for myself is, is the potential benefit worth the potential risk?

 

[rob norton]

Mainly because of the programmable rack focussing? Who knows what the hell that will look like!

Risking losing actors? To me that answers your question right there...

 

[joe12south]

- And not having to use an external recorder, etc. Anything I can do to make the two camera rig less obtrusive and easier to operate will help my actors focus on acting and me focus on directing.

- I can lose the actors at any time between now and the shoot, whether I delay it or not. They're working pro bono. There's just a slightly higher risk that the more time that goes by, the more likely they could book a paying gig when I can shoot.

PS. If you watch Panasonic Australia's video, you can see how the rack focus works in action.

 

[Thomas Smet]

- And not having to use an external recorder, etc. Anything I can do to make the two camera rig less obtrusive and easier to operate will help my actors focus on acting and me focus on directing.

- I can lose the actors at any time between now and the shoot, whether I delay it or not. They're working pro bono. There's just a slightly higher risk that the more time that goes by, the more likely they could book a paying gig when I can shoot.

PS. If you watch Panasonic Australia's video, you can see how the rack focus works in action.

An external recorder doesn't have to be tethered to the rig. Pick up a long HDMI cable and sit back away from your actors and record. Keeps what is in front of them down to a minimum.

Isn't the rack focus an set speed and time? Seems like creatively that would get a bit dull not being able to control the speed and how the focus changes gradually over time. Sounds like it would be too clinical.

 

[NorBro]

You can also put the external recorder on 15mm rods behind the camera either hanging low or laying down flat where the screen is straight up to the sky...there are different ways to mount it behind the camera, maybe off a tripod leg, etc.

 

[morgan_moore]

Shooting a feature? Rent a couple of ursas or mft bmc s or stick with what you have

The camera is such a minor portion of the production that it is basically irrelevant

Content lights package and art dept make features.

 

[estarkey7]

Joe,
"Programmable rack focusing (still can't believe they actually added this!)"

Are we sure how this was implemented? Can you control when the rack starts? What I read may have been vague but it almost seemed like it began upon roll.

I saw a video somewhere that had three buttons at the bottom of the screen. You can start a rack by pressing the button. Also, it said there was five speeds for the rack from very slow to almost instantaneous.

 

[joe12south]

Might the improved image stabilization AND rolling shutter also be helpful for your shoot? Or will it all be locked down? I'm not familiar with the rig you described, and you did mention "float".

The IBIS definitely. Not moving fast enough for rolling shutter to be an issue either way.

 

[joe12south]

Shooting a feature? Rent a couple of ursas or mft bmc s or stick with what you have

The camera is such a minor portion of the production that it is basically irrelevant

Content lights package and art dept make features.

I love the Ursa Mini 4.6k, but it's too big for this particular 2 camera shoot. The GHx body style is perfect...well, if I could get the control and PQ I needed from a GoPro, that would actually be perfect. ;-)

 

[joe12south]

Isn't the rack focus an set speed and time? Seems like creatively that would get a bit dull not being able to control the speed and how the focus changes gradually over time. Sounds like it would be too clinical.

I'd use it mainly to ensure that I hit focus, more than for creative-style racks.

You can also put the external recorder on 15mm rods behind the camera either hanging low or laying down flat where the screen is straight up to the sky...

Indeed. I tested this way late last year, and it will work, just not as elegantly.

I should probably explain the set-up:

The entire movie is two men chewing up the screen in a single "wet" basement (carved out of bedrock, earthen floor.) It is 90% dialogue, punctuated by brief moments of violence. One of the men is chained to the rafters for the entire 90 minutes.

The camera work is very intentional, and was plotted out equally along with the dialogue and action. (I needed to prove to myself that this should be a movie, not something else.) About 50% of the shots entail traditional camera work, but the other 50% rely on a dual-camera rig placed between the actors in order to capture both performances at the same time.

The technique is inspired by something the Cohen Bro's do a lot...which is to use a wide angle lens to get the camera right in between two actors. It provides a level of intimacy (and discomfort) that you can't replicate with a standard or tele lens. Now, as they traditionally have shot with big film rigs, they must shoot each actor one at a time, as is typical. You also have that big rig in between the actor and the other actor. A-list actors and professional crew deal with this clunky scenario and make magic. I have neither. You also run the risk of Actor B's best take being when Actor A is on camera. (How many times that happens!)

In the age of small digital cameras, I was inspired to make a dual-camera rig that could produce the same shots simultaneously, and still be less intrusive than a big single-camera rig. It's a pretty simple contraption. A short board has a quick release plate on the bottom, and two quick release receiver plates on the the top. One camera faces Actor A, one camera faces Actor B.

The first time I tested it, the camera and the actors were locked in place. Using Rokinon Cine 24mm + Speedboosters, I hit record and got out of the way. While the basic premise worked, the problem was (as I'm sure you can tell) that if the actors were free to move naturally, they would go in and out of focus and in and out of frame.

For my second test, I framed wider than I knew I would crop (Rokinon Cine 12mm + Speedbosters)using , and using 2 long whips, 2 external monitors and a friend, we pulled focus from the floor. In post, I cropped as appropriate. This worked much better, and the actors didn't have to worry so much about staying on mark (within reason.) The biggest downside to this is that I have to deliver 1080P, not 4K, but given that it's highly unlikely this will go anywhere other than festivals and online, that seems reasonable.

For my third test, I tried to do all of this handheld so that Actor A could circle actor B. (A key shot that happens only once.) That required 3 operators, was ridiculously hard, but ultimately we did pull it off. (After I don't even know how many takes.)

 

[KMR]

Looks like you've thought this out very thoroughly. This sounds like a perfect example of production design dictating specific technical requirements. It sounds like the GH5 might be what's needed to realize your vision. That's if the camera actually delivers as promised. Regardless, it sounds like a fascinating project whatever way you go. Best of luck!

 

[joe12south]

Looks like you've thought this out very thoroughly. This sounds like a perfect example of production design dictating specific technical requirements. It sounds like the GH5 might be what's needed to realize your vision. That's if the camera actually delivers as promised. Regardless, it sounds like a fascinating project whatever way you go. Best of luck!

Thx. It's definitely doable with my GH4's, just seems like it would be incrementally better/easier with GH5's.

 

[philiplipetz]

Not sure what you exposure parameters will be, but the advanced AF system on the GH5 (with appropriate Dual IS 2 lenses) could make it easier to set your two camera rig and just let it run.

 

[joe12south]

Not sure what you exposure parameters will be, but the advanced AF system on the GH5 (with appropriate Dual IS 2 lenses) could make it easier to set your two camera rig and just let it run.

Wouldn't that be nice, huh? It's certainly in the realm of possibility, but I haven't seen examples to form an impression yet. For me it would all depend on how much it visibly hunts. Even the best in class right now, like the 1DC, hunts in a way that I find totally acceptable for an interview, but probably not for this.

 

[philiplipetz]

Wouldn't that be nice, huh? It's certainly in the realm of possibility, but I haven't seen examples to form an impression yet. For me it would all depend on how much it visibly hunts. Even the best in class right now, like the 1DC, hunts in a way that I find totally acceptable for an interview, but probably not for this.

We are currently shooting Canon C100 Mk II with the nano lens , 18-135mm. Not the best glass but in auto AF mode it tracks our subjects perfectly with no hunting.

My hope is that Panasonic's upgraded lenses are as good at AF. THey certainly echo the same terminology when describing the silent updated IS mechanisms. THe real question is if any AF system can compete with Canon's dual pixel AF. Some phrases used by testers give me hope, but clearly the camera AF is not yet finalized so no one is making any definitive statements about AF.

 

[david_p]

joe12south,

one snag could be noise when using AF. I've got the 1DXmkII and 70D and the NON STM lenses can get pretty noisy when using AF tracking which in a shooting setup like your talking about wouldn't work very well.

not sure how the GH5 responds to certain lenses though.

david

 

[joe12south]

joe12south,

one snag could be noise when using AF. I've got the 1DXmkII and 70D and the NON STM lenses can get pretty noisy when using AF tracking which in a shooting setup like your talking about wouldn't work very well.

not sure how the GH5 responds to certain lenses though.

david

Excellent point, David. I don't currently own any wide native lenses, so I'd have to test for that.