Dear Panasonic : An Open Letter

LuckyStudio 13

LuckyStudio 13

The Tapeless One
There is a large gap in the current prosumer large sensor market. We either have camera that have lackluster codec implementation or camera that would demand a ton of expensive "Pro Modules" and computing power that are way beyond the reach of a typical indie production.

We would really hope that you would be able to put a large sensor imager into "Like the current HPX250 body". Coming from as far as the dvx100, we are all comfortable with Panasonic camera's form factor, your solid pro AVC-Intra 100mbp 10 bit codec, the built-in ND filters, XLR inputs for those odd jobs that we do just to make ends meet, the affordable power/battery solutions and the magical mojo images that only Panasonic camera can deliver.

After all the dust have settled from the recent early November event, clearly there is a big void that existed in the marketplace that is still left unattended. There is a very big sub $8k - $10k gap that we really hope that you can bridge for us, the low budget indie filmmakers. We really hope that Panasonic will have a new camera coming forth into the new large sensor camera generation and setting the industry standard like what the "DVX and HVX" have done in the past.

Thank You.
 
There must be a technology gap on internal processing power otherwise I doubt this would be an issue. I mean if a Epic cost 28,000 for a brain and a Scarlet cost 10,000 for a brain thats a big difference in cost for just more internal processing power/frame rates/resolutions.

So there has to be custom made boards/processors that are needed to handle large and fast data like a camera would need. Issue is that kinda tech is not in high demand which is probably why it cost so much more. Quantity = lower cost. If every Iphone was shooting 5k there would be no issue.

Notice camera makers always use tech that is already deployed in some other camera/platform. Its because its cheaper if its already in produciton.

Would be nice to have even just a 10bit 4:2:2 SDI out on the AF100 or any RAW output and let us figure out the rest. (we always do). Anyone remember the Hydra for the HVX200?
 
Panasonic is too invested in Micro Four-Thirds at the moment, I wouldn't expect them to jump to S35 anytime soon. What we will most likely see is an uncompressed-capable AF100-type camera, AF200 maybe? What they should focus on is making fast lenses to complement such a camera as well as advance the 3D features to video, at least for the sake of satisfying that market segment.

To be honest though, we probably won't see any real response to the Scarlet for at least a year. Even if Panasonic cooked up a high-end AF100 right now with all the bells and whistles, they'd still need to test it to meet all their professional quality standards and, based on their track record, that means using it in several year round events and lots of extreme conditions. The same goes for any potential uncompressed GH3-type camera, RED's drawn a pretty big line in the sand and it's definitely going to take some time to respond.
 
LuckyStudio 13 said:
There is a large gap in the current prosumer large sensor market. We either have camera that have lackluster codec implementation or camera that would demand a ton of expensive "Pro Modules" and computing power that are way beyond the reach of a typical indie production.

We would really hope that you would be able to put a large sensor imager into "Like the current HPX250 body". Coming from as far as the dvx100, we are all comfortable with Panasonic camera's form factor, your solid pro AVC-Intra 100mbp 10 bit codec, the built-in ND filters, XLR inputs for those odd jobs that we do just to make ends meet, the affordable power/battery solutions and the magical mojo images that only Panasonic camera can deliver.

After all the dust have settled from the recent early November event, clearly there is a big void that existed in the marketplace that is still left unattended. There is a very big sub $8k - $10k gap that we really hope that you can bridge for us, the low budget indie filmmakers. We really hope that Panasonic will have a new camera coming forth into the new large sensor camera generation and setting the industry standard like what the "DVX and HVX" have done in the past.

Thank You.
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yoclay said:
100% agreed.
Time to graduate beyond micro 4/3's.
We all want it and we know you can do it right.
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What they said:happy:
 
Jack_Felis said:
To be honest though, we probably won't see any real response to the Scarlet for at least a year. Even if Panasonic cooked up a high-end AF100 right now with all the bells and whistles, they'd still need to test it to meet all their professional quality standards and, based on their track record, that means using it in several year round events and lots of extreme conditions. The same goes for any potential uncompressed GH3-type camera, RED's drawn a pretty big line in the sand and it's definitely going to take some time to respond.
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So, what do you think they've been doing since they released the AF100 and the GH2? Unless they've been goofing off for the year and a half since NAB 2010 (when they announced the AF100), I suspect that they will announce new large-sensor products at NAB 2012. I wouldn't be too surprised by an AVC-Intra 400 12-bit 4K model.
 
So, what do you think they've been doing since they released the AF100 and the GH2? Unless they've been goofing off for the year and a half since NAB 2010 (when they announced the AF100), I suspect that they will announce new large-sensor products at NAB 2012. I wouldn't be too surprised by an AVC-Intra 400 12-bit 4K model.
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What he said.
 
I really don't mind the 4/3 format, and if Panasonic delivered on an AF100 with 10-bit AVC-Intra I would be so down.

I do wish that they could match the ISO performance of an FS100, but I suspect sensor size has a lot to do with it's extra stop of sensitivity.
 
I agree there does seem to be a need for an AF110 or whatever it would be called. Same basic camera, but no need to use external recorder for cleaner footage. "Gaping void" might be over stating it a little with all the current options out there and those that are coming. There is definitely plenty of choice.
 
I cannot help but feel that most of these manufacturer's have been beating around the bush for quite sometime. They have all got road maps as the best way to sell the most amounts of cameras over the long term and unfortunately that doesn't correspond with the objectives of the buyer - us.

I'll keep it real simple:
10 bit 422 in camera, S35 sensor. 444 with external recorder or LOG, or both. Built-in ND's, decent codec, xlr's, sdi.

10k?
Here's my money.

Voila.
 
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Which are m4/3

Yeah, I remember Hydra and the huge thread that resulted, may even have contributed myself. There was even a thread for a petition to bring it back.

Always wondered who killed it off, my money would be on Jim.
 
Lee Saxon said:
Why? Isn't their lens line mostly for the GF/GH/consumer cams?
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Some Panasonic pro X lenses are coming and it looks like they're gonna be weather-sealed. Granted, this is still only a rumor but Panny hasn't forgotten m43 and it's clear that they have a specific roadmap in mind for it.
 
yoclay said:
I cannot help but feel that most of these manufacturer's have been beating around the bush for quite sometime. They have all got road maps as the best way to sell the most amounts of cameras over the long term and unfortunately that doesn't correspond with the objectives of the buyer - us.
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They still have a need for prestige products as well as volume. Car manufacturers invest in Formula 1 and other motorsport because it sells cars - even though the cars sold are not Formula 1. The buying public assumes (sometimes even correctly) that the R&D filters down to consumer products.
 
Gabriel Berube said:
Some Panasonic pro X lenses are coming and it looks like they're gonna be weather-sealed. Granted, this is still only a rumor but Panny hasn't forgotten m43 and it's clear that they have a specific roadmap in mind for it.
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Sometimes your roadtrip changes. Panasonic is at a fork in the road....do you turn left at Albuquerque or keep on going?
 
yoclay said:
10 bit 422 in camera, S35 sensor. 444 with external recorder or LOG, or both. Built-in ND's, decent codec, xlr's, sdi
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10 bit 4:2:2 : I think this will happen next year

S35 Sensor : Not from Panasonic, as they have no lenses/sensors for this format. No real Prosumer/Indy S35 advantage over current M4/3 format.

4:4:4 : Too expensive for Prosumer/Indy market. Recorder costs as much or more than the camera. Other than FX people, who really needs 4:4:4 ?

...My guess is that an upgraded AF-100 will be revealed at NAB next year that should span the gap between a Sony F3 ---> AF-100, with a price of $8K+.
 
TheDingo said:
10 bit 4:2:2 : I think this will happen next year

S35 Sensor : Not from Panasonic, as they have no lenses/sensors for this format. No real Prosumer/Indy S35 advantage over current M4/3 format.

4:4:4 : Too expensive for Prosumer/Indy market. Recorder costs as much or more than the camera. Other than FX people, who really needs 4:4:4 ?

...My guess is that an upgraded AF-100 will be revealed at NAB next year that should span the gap between a Sony F3 ---> AF-100, with a price of $8K+.
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I agree. An AF100-type, probly using the same sensor with 10-but 4:2:2 via AVCIntra will be coming. I just can't see that NOT happening. But I really hope that Panasonic doesn't drop the ball on a LOG gamma curve or SOMETHING to really capitalize on dynamic range. If they come up with an "SLog" or something to add to their 10bit in-camera codec, they'll have an AMAZING camera that no one can come close to beating under 10k. Especially if they keep 1080p24->60 overcrank. Which is already fricking awesome in the AF100...
 
i talked to panasonic at IBC2011, they said having no plans for large sensor camera. Basically i think this is due to the reason panasonic not having own sensor... so i would not expect anything from panasonic, though i would be happy if that happened.
 
The cost is relative to the number of projected units sold along with the cost of the technology to build it. That's why it ramps up so incredibly high so fast. It does get very expensive quickly.

The problem is, people think, well, if you lower the price, you'll sell more. However, don't forget, these companies have been doing this a long time. There is a sweet spot in the curve where you sell the most cameras for the best margin, and that's what they try to hit. They have ALL the data I am sure for every camera they sell.

I remind myself of this often as I get frustrated with certain price differences.

Also, with high speed electronics, that top 1% to 10% performer of chips, you get 99% to 90% waste of electronics as well. If the EPIC chipset is REALLY pushing the envelope, and I believe it does, the Scarlet is cheaper because they can use the chips that wouldn't work in the Epic, and they reduce the price as well. Really, at the end of the day, if they didn't sell the Scarlet, they'd just throw all those out (a bigger company might repurpose them).

I think the next AF line camera from Panasonic will be 4/3rd and have a better codec, 1:1 zoom at least on the display, true 1080p60 at full speed, and probably just a sensor that gets incrementally better. Other than those things, everything else on the AF100 was awesome when I owned it. A solid camera.
 
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