David Stump (drifted off topic)

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]That Jeff Kreines is an arrogant, bitter guy. He basically said that most everyone who posts here is a broke loser who "can't even afford an HVX." There is a lot of arrogance and rudeness displayed on those threads, and several voices of reason. If Apocalypto is nominated or wins for Best Cinematography, will these claims that "if you have not shot film, you are not a filmmaker" slowly start to go away?

At this point, if you are coming into the industry now, it does not make sense to learn about and use chemical film, IMHO. Better to focus on the future, which is digital.
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I don't think Kreines is anti-digital. He's been working on a digital cinema camera.

You have to understand things from the perspective of high-end cinematography pros. In their market segment, there's a lot of skepticism about digital among studios, producers, etc., and budgets are high enough that the costs involved with shooting 35mm just aren't that significant. They get asked to shoot 35mm regularly, and would probably be unemployable if they didn't have 35mm experience, so of course some of them don't take people who haven't shot on film seriously. If you're trying to work you way up though the industry establishment as a cinematographer, you'd be crazy not to get some film experience under your belt, and that's how many of these guys are thinking.

As far as I can see, though, most of the people getting excited about RED don't have the goal of working their way up as cinematographers; they want to be indie producers. From that angle, learning to shoot on film doesn't make a lot of sense these days, frankly.
 
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Yeah, I'm aware of Kreines' camera. Which is why I used the word "bitter."

If his camera can do what he claims, guess who would be a huge potential customers base for it? The people right here on this forum.
 
Tom Lowe said:
Yeah, I'm aware of Kreines' camera. Which is why I used the word "bitter."

If his camera can do what he claims, guess who would be a huge potential customers base for it? The people right here on this forum.
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Well, not so much at his estimated $65K....
 
I'd disencourage the talk to turn into trash talking specific individuals, even when we feel they might have been arrogant or whatever. Let's leave the trahs talk to CML. We are more classy than that... ;)
 
Illya Friedman said:
Here's a question some of you should get, where were you the first time you were asked to find shadow spray?
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I think I was in the midst of looking for a board stretcher.
 
www.kinetta.com Copyright 2004 Kinetta

www.kinetta.com Copyright 2004 Kinetta

taubkin said:
I'd disencourage the talk to turn into trash talking specific individuals, even when we feel they might have been arrogant or whatever. Let's leave the trahs talk to CML. We are more classy than that... ;)
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taubkin, you well know what me thinks about you.. :) but because there isn't rule without exception.. :thumbup: chiefly, in some cases.. and this is the case:
Tom Lowe said:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]That Jeff Kreines is an arrogant, bitter guy. He basically said that most everyone who posts here is a broke loser who "can't even afford an HVX." There is a lot of arrogance and rudeness displayed on those threads
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who is this guy?..
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0470665/
please allow me a great :)
more than a half of my students have a more extensive or interesting filmography than this same dude..

..from a vaporware project called kinetta:
http://www.kinetta.com/home.php
http://www.kinetta.com/download/files/jeff-with-kinetta.jpg
http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?showforum=41

since 2004 we're waiting for:
..the update of his website :grin: please, jeff, give us a break.. :-Laugh(DBG):

> From the CML-Kinetta - Jeff K. doing the answers:
> When will this camer be for sale?
Should be the second quarter of this year.

in HD For Indies and one year later.. February 10, 2005.. :D

Mike Curtis: For those who don't know, the Kinetta is a new digital cinema style videocamera/digital cinematography camera that Jeff Kreines is developing. Lots of folks are interested in it, it's small form factor, uses 35mm sized sensor, uses film style lenses, records raw 10 bit log RGB to small disk array dock, and should be very interesting.

where have i heard this so lately?.. eheh.. well.. now it is 12 bits and t[SIZE=-1]he bet made by the racetrack bookmaker is on another horse[/SIZE].. :D :D


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this also reminds me that kind of filmmakers who are looking for a financing grant, the only way to make a movie because they want to just show off to their friends..

:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG) http://www.kinetta.com/photos/
 
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Filmmaker1977, your right, the "Usual Suspects" are just sour grapes.
Do not under estimate their extreme dislike for Jim Jannard.

I spent all Sunday reading through every post on the ###.net and ###.com Kinetta forums and then it clicked with me. These "professionals" cannot wait for RED to fail because their "horse" never left the gate. I started to feel sorry for Jeff but his constant bitter attitude left me feeling nothing for him and I was rooting for him years ago...
 
Yeah I was also aware of that guy's IMDB, but it's such an easy shot, I refrained. ;)

Another thing that bugged me is that Jarred went onto that thread basically saying, "Hey we are not all a bunch of losers who can't afford HVX's like you claim..." trying to defend the people on this forum, and then one of the admins there comes on all huffy telling Jarred to stop "trying to cause trouble," when all he was doing to defending himself and us! I was like, WTF?

Oh well. hehe.
 
firewallet said:
Do not under estimate their extreme dislike for Jim Jannard.
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This can be a risk for the indie movement. We need the RED project with us, not with them.

And this pression can be a temptation in order to please greeks and trojans. Christ was Christ and wasn't accept for all. :) This RED fuss can be our bless if bothers some interests of the movie business. Being our standard. High standard or not (especially if their standard) isn't paramount. To be ours -- is paramount.

IMHO, I don't have any interest in those techie test hypes. The cinematography field is only a tool (there are other values), not the most important -- if we have the basics: the RED specs and what the first clips, pics and reports are showing. To be or not to be "the" film replacement isn't a major issue. At least, from the indie POV.

firewallet said:
I spent all Sunday reading through every post on the ###.net and ###.com Kinetta forums and then it clicked with me. These "professionals" cannot wait for RED to fail because their "horse" never left the gate. I started to feel sorry for Jeff but his constant bitter attitude left me feeling nothing for him and I was rooting for him years ago...
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Andrew, aside your last sunday experience, you took your words from my and your own thoughts. I'd bet: and from our own* thoughts too.

EDIT -- * I mean all of us and not only your or/and my opinion(s)!
 
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taubkin said:
I'd disencourage the talk to turn into trash talking specific individuals, even when we feel they might have been arrogant or whatever. Let's leave the trahs talk to CML. We are more classy than that... ;)
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word.
 
and I thougt this intolerant behavior is more a german trait. So indie guys - stay a little more tolerant - you will see, the people with time, patience and tolerance will win every game, sometimes just at the very end.
if you take a look on the german market and if you read the german papers which are in this industrial sector - even the german indy film forums, they all do not believe in the red project.
sometime I don´t know if it is just envy, that maybe there is a new successfull way. Nobody exspects jubilation, but we all have to be more respectful among us !
 
Who cares what others are saying? This is bound to happen. I think this trend occurs everywhere with something that shakes up the market and workflow.

When people have been in the industry for so long, they just dont beleive it's possible for it to change so dramatically. They will have their own views on what's possible and what is not, and also for what price.

It's actually quite natural to have an elite group of sceptics, especially if those sceptics feel some kind of 'threat' from the new technology, to their craft, or workflow. But let the camera speak for itself. If it produces the goods - which it seems like it may do, then who cares?

As for the attitude on the other boards to this one... It's boards like this where I think where you're going to find the new emerging talent. I'm happy to be part of it as it's an encouraging place to be, with a range of users that span across all levels and disaplines. That cant be said about every board.
 
Brook Willard said:
It's like being a Mac user.
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It's like being a PC user... surrounded by Mac users. :)

The thing is, I think the fear and rejection of the RED project by a certain faction of the community comes from the brash way it came to being, and the fact it wasn't championed by a known source; either a company with deep film/video roots, or an individual long associated with the movement. How dare "this guy" come into our tight world and proclaim he intends to do what no one else has done yet, AND do it at a price-point that has no historical model?
 
From Dictionary.com :

PROFESSIONAL
1. following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.

How, then, are NBCShooter and Evinsky (to name just two) not professionals?

Hell, I'm 22, I've made money from my DVX. I'm a mediocre shooter at best but I'm a "professional".
Everybody be nice, stay calm and wait for the best April Fools joke in history to arrive.
 
Illya Friedman said:
Here's a question some of you should get, where were you the first time you were asked to find shadow spray?

I.
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Nice, here's a good one that AFAIK we invented about 10 years ago: If the day is nice and sunny, tell your PA's it's time to charge the bounce cards. Have them set up an elabaorate C-Stand structure so they can clamp show card to it facing the sun. tell them to adjust position occasionally and also let them use your light meter to take incident and reflected readings until the cards reach a given stop.

Enjoy
 
When I was teaching we used to send kids to another classroom to get the "long stand". That used to work quite well indeed....

Graeme
 
Ah Ah Ah! Word!

On Chris Kenny quote, the $65K reason is why the Red camera has been attacked in such places... There was an upcoming business without future now after the Red $17,500 announcement of last April.
 
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