D90 For Feature Length Film ?

yes, that's why i explained that i'm using the ee-s focusing screen. the actual dof doesn't change no matter what adapter, since it's the lens that determines it, but the size, shape and quality of the bokeh depends to a large degree on the ground glass, achromat diopter and so on. with the ee-s the image pops into focus like it does on film, it doesn't fuzz/smear/blur in and out like with most adapters. also it renders out of focus points as discs rather than fuzzy dots, a related issue.

/matt
 
All adapters eat light. I guess (with the HVX200) they had to let more light (maybe from 2.8 to 2) into the lens - and whops you get a shorter DOF.
 
Super8 said:
uh...not to be unpolite or anything...but if you have no crew, I seriously doubt that your movie then has the merit to be blown up to 35mm...unless I am missing something.

If you are serious of doing movies, then you will get some sort of crew to help you out...even if all they get is a couple of pizzas as payment. No matter how small your movie is... or no matter how "no budget" it is...you still need to treat using the basic principles of moviemaking...as if you had the money
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Ooh a challenge, I'm up for a challenge. I get what you're saying and I'll probably put out a call for help in return for some good pizza. But frankly I've seen too many films made here in Australia with multi-million dollar budgets that were shot on film and ended up looking like they were shot on video.

My script calls for a gritty, urban, real life, dark and at times surreal look. So super clean and crisp well lit HD is out.

I was thinking of the HV20 B camera option like Outkasted suggested for a couple of action sequences. But I'm going to try and fly the D90 on a diy steadicam first. I've seen some good results on vimeo of the D90 flown on a steadicam merlin, no rolling shutter. If my diy steadicam can't cut it I'm looking at getting a steadytracker. I'm not sure the if the merlin would work not being able to touch the focus ring. I'll be shooting the flown stuff with 18, 20, and 28mm lenses.

I see what you mean Matt about the DOF, it looks really unnatural. When I first looked at the shootout there seemed to be something wrong with the DOF adapter shots but I couldn't figure what it was. The D90 while lower res had a better feel about it. Thanks for pointing that out, it helps reaffirm my decision to go with the D90.

From what I've seen on vimeo the D90 has the closest "feel" of film of any of the camera's I've seen. I think that largely comes down to- 24 actual mjpeg frames per second, "real" DOF, film like gamma and low light performance with Nikon prime lenses, and a soft gritty look that gives it a 70's film vibe.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about- http://vimeo.com/groups/d90/videos/2422919 It's just some footage of some dudes out riding their skateboards. I doesn't look like they've figured out how to lock the exposure and much of it is out of focus but I think it looks fantastic straight out of the camera. It's so NOT video. It just has this "warmth" that I don't think you can get elsewhere without a lot of work in post.

Thanks for the all the advice so far guys. I'm hoping that by the time I start shooting mid 09 Nikon will have either upped the bitrate on the D90 or brought out a D???. But at the end of the day I definitely subscribe to the fisher price model.
 
I'm also going to have a very small crew. This is how it's always been on my short films and how I'm used to making my own movies. I think it helps the actors be more comfortable in a lot of situations and I work well this way. Plus I really don't have a choice seeing as I am poor. :)

I like the D90/HV30 combo. I'm just worried about audio. I was going to run a double system with an H2 and some type of mic/in camera deal. I love the visual side the most, but I don't want to skimp on audio. It's one of the reasons I would consider like a DVX100 over the d90. I think it'd be quicker and easier to get my audio done and in a better quality even if I was shooting run n gun style. If the HVX200 was used below like $3000 with a p2 card, i might do that. I love the D90's picture and look though. Plus it's so small. Would be easy to shoot some stuff and not draw a lot of attention. Plus I plan on doing a lot of low light shooting. I'm just confused.
 
the d90 audio is a relatively easy fix when using a field recorder. i have the zoom h4 and plug my oktava up to it and just sync it in post. takes all of two seconds(maybe more). but point being is it's not that big of deal. you can monitor your sound just as you could with the dvx. i sat down one day and just played with the zoom h4 and my oktava for an hour and found how awesome that piece of equipment is when using it right. problem though, is the xlr phantom power....have lots of batteries or wall socket near by.
 
Yeah the size and low light performance are very attractive features. Before the D90 came out I was considering a HMC-150 or HG20/HF11 with a DIY DOF adapter. But then you have to start looking at adding rails and it starts to become cumbersome and you can forget about not drawing attention. Not to mention the bill you're gonna get from your chiropractor after endless hours trying to fly the beast.

I'm a record producer with a 20yr background in the music industry so I know a bit about sound. I'm getting an M-audio microtrack II http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MicroTrackII.html I've done quite a bit of research and it looks like the best field recording option. It has 2 mono balanced line in's with seperate adjustable recording levels. And it has 48v phantom power. Nothing else I've looked at comes close to this for the money $200 USD @ B&H. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=515484&is=REG

I'm also getting a rode video mic ttp://aus.rodemic.com/microphone.php?product=VideoMic it attaches to the D90's shoe mount for run and gun action. It might not be the best option on a boom because it doesn't have balanced outputs so you could get some rf interference over a long cable run, but if your sound guy is paying attention it might be fine. The rode NTG-1 http://aus.rodemic.com/microphone.php?product=NTG-1 has a balanced out and is the "pro" option on a boom. The Rode mics have received rave reviews and I don't work for them btw, but they are an australian company so I can get them pretty cheap here.

As for getting the sound to sync, all you need to do is transfer the sound via usb to your mac/pc get it into fcp etc... and sync up the waveform with the dodgy sound from the D90.
 
Outkasted said:
How about a D90 and a HV30 teamed up, how well would that match ? What about if I added a 35mm DOF Adapter to the HV30 with a matching lens as to the one I'm using on the D90 at the time ? Only difference being 1 a Nikon lens and the other a Canon (or get a Canon to Nikon adapter also). I'm just exploring every option . I think the d90 will be great for close-ups, lower light conditions, etc. The HV30 for motion shots or action . Anybody have any other suggestions ? the D5 has issues of it's own and I actually like the d90 for what it does. I'd be saving a ton of money also that I can put to other things if I went with the d90.
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I'm using a HV20 (no adapter) as A-cam and D90 as B-cam. I have been mixing the footage and, with some work, getting it to look fine. Turn the sharpness down on the HV30... maybe try Cine mode on it as well, I have not done that yet and probably won't because I need to pull sharp stills from the A-cam footage.

I use a moderate blur on the HV20 footage, as well as corrections to make the color and gamma match and look as I want. I do the project at 23.976 in PPro and interpret the D90 footage down to that so it doesn't frame blend. This causes sound sync to be off one frame ever 40-some seconds, but its not too difficult to deal with.

With a DOF adapter on the HV30, what are you doing for light? You will probably want to use a ND on the Nikon or else you'll need smaller apertures than you probably want to keep the shutter speed lowish. The HV30 with a DOF adapter can be rated at about 20 ISO as you loose at least 2 stops of light between the HV's f1.8 lens and the ground glass... The Nikon probably uses 200 ISO at the lowest for D-Movie. My point is if you use a HV30 with adapter you'll need a lot of light (equals time and money).

Also, watch your scene contrast. The D90 has a much larger dynamic range than the HV20, even lowering the laters contrast... again I don't know about in Cine mode though since I don't shoot it.
 
i dont mean to be a hater but ppl who usually say i'm going to start a 'small production' next spring talk the talk but dont walk the walk. i've seen this in the past few years, all hype now and easy to dream but when it comes time for execution it doesnt happen. i really do hope to see some short films actually happen and prove me wrong.
 
Ooh another challenge, bring it on. I'll admit this is my first film and I still have a lot of hurdles to jump, but I heard a lot of comments like yours before I recorded my first album and no amount of negativity stopped me then either.

But I know what you're saying, hey I've been talking the talk since I saw star wars when I was 7. But this time it's for real, my script is coming along nicely and I'm already well into pre-production. Most of my time is now going into this (when I'm not chasing my 2 little monsters around) I'm self financing it hence the no-budget approach but I am seeking some extra $$$ with some product placement.

I'm hoping to shoot a short over the new year break and enter it into tropfest as a warm up to the feature. It would be great to see the D90 blown up on a big screen there. It wouldn't be 35mm however. All i need to do is come up with a worthy script!
 
squig said:
Ooh another challenge, bring it on. I'll admit this is my first film and I still have a lot of hurdles to jump, but I heard a lot of comments like yours before I recorded my first album and no amount of negativity stopped me then either.

But I know what you're saying, hey I've been talking the talk since I saw star wars when I was 7. But this time it's for real, my script is coming along nicely and I'm already well into pre-production. Most of my time is now going into this (when I'm not chasing my 2 little monsters around) I'm self financing it hence the no-budget approach but I am seeking some extra $$$ with some product placement.

I'm hoping to shoot a short over the new year break and enter it into tropfest as a warm up to the feature. It would be great to see the D90 blown up on a big screen there. It wouldn't be 35mm however. All i need to do is come up with a worthy script!
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i applaud the enthusiasm i really do. i dont have the major experience you have in the industry either. but i definately absolutely suggest starting on a miniscule scale. you speak of needing to come up with a worthy script for a feature length film but you havent even tested the waters with a 5 min film. you dont know what you're getting yourself into filming a full length film with the d90
 
Judging by the recently inflated prices of Nikon primes on ebay I think there's gonna be a lot of D90 films coming out soon. I just scored a 50mm f/1.4 ai-s for $130 but it is supposed to be mint.
 
sry i meant I need a worthy script for the short. The feature script is well underway and looking really good. Since I was a kid I've started 3 companies and jumped in the deep end. It's how I like to do things......you think big or you be small......It's worked pretty well so far.

I think filmmakers have it a lot easier here than in the US. While it's a smaller market there is much less competition to have your film widely screened, keeping in mind there are only around 200 screens in Aus. My executive producer is a marketing guru so I have that pretty much covered.

I have a pretty good idea what I'm getting myself into. When I say I jump in the deep end I test the water first. To make life a little easier I'll be shooting mostly on weekends over a few months. And one of the main locations will be an apartment that I'm looking to move into. After having 2 kids the rest is easy! But I really appreciate what all the pro's here have to say and I have a few idea's that I'll share with you guys over time to return the favor.
 
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Squig- I have the MicroTrack and the Zoom H4. The MicroTrack is a problem because it doesn't have a replaceable battery and the recording times aren't that long. So you have to plug it in to charge it. This is a major hassle

The Zoom H4 runs on Double A batteries and has XLR inputs as well as 1/4 jacks...plus the audio quality is equal.
 
D90 sound recording options

D90 sound recording options

Jim Klatt said:
Squig- I have the MicroTrack and the Zoom H4. The MicroTrack is a problem because it doesn't have a replaceable battery and the recording times aren't that long. So you have to plug it in to charge it. This is a major hassle

The Zoom H4 runs on Double A batteries and has XLR inputs as well as 1/4 jacks...plus the audio quality is equal.
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Thanks for the tip Jim. Is it a MicroTrack or MicroTrack II? If it's a MicroTrack II roughly how short is the recording time? And were you phantom powering anything? How would you compare the sound quality? I might have to buy a B-Rec to compliment my A & B Cam's. I like to have backups handy. The other option is a USB battery pack.

I have a cheap M-audio interface for my powerbook and it's sound quality is comparable to some much more expensive kit. Having to return the MicroTrack to the manufacturer to have the battery replaced is annoying but it never stopped anyone buying an iPod.

I was looking at the Zoom H4 but was concerned about the small display and unintuitive interface. You just can't be sure what kind of condition your sound guy is going to be in on the day. And you know what they say "pay peanuts.. get monkeys".

A lack of precise input level control is a concern and this quote from a review is disturbing "I consistently had problems getting enough gain with external mics". Here's a quote from an M-audio review "The MicroTrack II sounds very good. The excellent sound quality is why so many people put up with its irritations.

Google had this to say-

http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/m-audio-microtrack-ii-review.html
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/zoom-h4-review.html
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/pub...08/04/r-09-hr-microtrack-2-review.html?page=2
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/digitalmedia/2007/02/01/review-zoom-h4-handy-recorder.html

I have a nice compact Presonus Digitube valve pre-amp that I might rig up a battery pack for. A valve pre-amp and a field recorder with quality A/D converters will blow away the sound recording capabilities of a lot of mid range cameras.
 
i'd stay away from m-audio chip recorders - the pre's and converters are pretty sub-par - rode video mics don't really cut it either imo

check out the shootouts at
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html
and
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-reviews.html
heaps of audio samples on those links - let your ears decide!

i'd go for a sony pcm-d50 and an AT or octava shotgun
maybe a beachtek or jucedlink for leveling
phantom power? - denecke makes an ok unit
if most of your film is indoors, you might want to look at lavalier mics - far fewer reflection issues than with a shotgun mic
and don't forget to get some nice clean ambient room recordings to act as a bed for your dialogue...
 
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