I have close to $3000 to spend on camera(s), lens, extra batteries, memory card/tapes, etc. I had been planning on taking a huge gamble and trying the d90 (after seeing footage), but after reading the thread about it's cooling problems during long shoots I 2nd guessed. If I had two d90's maybe I could get away with it though? I'm not gonna start filming until Spring, so I have time. Shoe string low budget and I'm trying for the best looking picture I can get for my money. I'm just planning ahead now and the d90 and the new Canon got me all excited about the possibilites. If you were in my shoes, which Camera and setup would you go with if not 2 d90s? $3000 for everything. Thanks.
D90 For Feature Length Film ?
- Thread starter Outkasted
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Coco Bermudez
Well-known member
well...I would say not to go with the D90...I see the d90 as a perfect camera for small creative spots but not full features. I say, go with a used DVX100 on Ebay...I've seem some shooters package go for about $2,000 with rails, mattebox, and sometimes you find some selling with their 35mm adapters.
There were a couple of DVX movies that won Oscars...at the end, it is about the content and gertting the best quality your money can buy
There were a couple of DVX movies that won Oscars...at the end, it is about the content and gertting the best quality your money can buy
squig
Veteran
D90 feature
D90 feature
After much research and a lot of great tips from dvx members, I've decided to shoot a feature with the D90. Sure the D90 has it's quirks but it all depends on the look you're after. Personally I'm after a gritty, urban, spike lee kinda look and I think the D90 is the only camera for the money that will give me the low light performance, depth of field, and color rendition that I'm looking for.
I'm hoping Nikon will get their act together and lower the compression and maybe give us access to shutter speed but aside from that I think the D90 is up to the task. As for the overheating issue I'll be keeping a bit of money aside for a second D90 if I need it.
I think the most important thing to consider when deciding between shooting with the D90 or a DVX is the limitations of CMOS vs CCD when it comes to handheld and fast action. I'll be using a tripod, stabilizer, and maybe even my daughters BOB jogging stroller for every shot.
D90 feature
After much research and a lot of great tips from dvx members, I've decided to shoot a feature with the D90. Sure the D90 has it's quirks but it all depends on the look you're after. Personally I'm after a gritty, urban, spike lee kinda look and I think the D90 is the only camera for the money that will give me the low light performance, depth of field, and color rendition that I'm looking for.
I'm hoping Nikon will get their act together and lower the compression and maybe give us access to shutter speed but aside from that I think the D90 is up to the task. As for the overheating issue I'll be keeping a bit of money aside for a second D90 if I need it.
I think the most important thing to consider when deciding between shooting with the D90 or a DVX is the limitations of CMOS vs CCD when it comes to handheld and fast action. I'll be using a tripod, stabilizer, and maybe even my daughters BOB jogging stroller for every shot.
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
i'd shoot a feature on a fisher-price if the look and feel matched my vision for the project. if you like the D90, then go for it! i'm am! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl012-EB3rM&fmt=22
Zack Birlew
Veteran
Okay, for starters, you can't compare the DVX to the D90. The D90 has it beat as far as visual quality goes and I know that people have done great stuff with the DVX and can get the DOF look either through zooming in or 35mm adapters but you have to be practical about it. A D90, with all of its finicky hiccups with exposure, is easier to set up and tweak than having to constantly readjust the 35mm adapter on a 1/3" camera and zooming in is only going to cause problems in blocking the scene, believe me I know, and it's no replacement for a 35mm adapter or 35mm sensor camera, like the D90. Let's not even mention that the D90 is HD as well, heavily compressed, but still HD and sharper than a DVX if you have the right lenses.
As I've learned on my student short with the D90, you've got to have two D90's and, for a feature, I can foresee that you're going to need to get at least two 16gb cards. I was sweating during my longer shooting days when I had only a single 8gb card and I seemed to be flying through clip after clip, thankfully I never ran out because I made sure to dump it after each shooting day but I was only doing a short.
As far as the two D90's goes, I "lucked" out by having to send back my 18-105mm lens after it broke from a freak tripod trip and the Best Buy couldn't replace it, as there wasn't a seperate D90 body kit or 18-105mm kit at the time, so they just decided to give me a whole new D90 and 18-105mm kit. It felt like stealing as I basically got a whole kit for roughly $300 but they said that it was fine, even though it cost me the remainder of my extended Best Buy warranty, which goes away after they replace it, what a crock right? Well, maybe not in my case.
But anyway, having that second D90 in the bag was really helpful for when the Live View started to overheat and I just swapped the memory card and lens to the other D90, already preset with all the right settings, and just continued to shoot.
As I've learned on my student short with the D90, you've got to have two D90's and, for a feature, I can foresee that you're going to need to get at least two 16gb cards. I was sweating during my longer shooting days when I had only a single 8gb card and I seemed to be flying through clip after clip, thankfully I never ran out because I made sure to dump it after each shooting day but I was only doing a short.
As far as the two D90's goes, I "lucked" out by having to send back my 18-105mm lens after it broke from a freak tripod trip and the Best Buy couldn't replace it, as there wasn't a seperate D90 body kit or 18-105mm kit at the time, so they just decided to give me a whole new D90 and 18-105mm kit. It felt like stealing as I basically got a whole kit for roughly $300 but they said that it was fine, even though it cost me the remainder of my extended Best Buy warranty, which goes away after they replace it, what a crock right? Well, maybe not in my case.
But anyway, having that second D90 in the bag was really helpful for when the Live View started to overheat and I just swapped the memory card and lens to the other D90, already preset with all the right settings, and just continued to shoot.
squig
Veteran
Bugga, there goes another grand of my non existent budget on a another D90.
Was the D90 cooking under some tungstens when it overheated?
My main concern with the D90 is how the compression artifacts will look when it's blown up to 35mm. I do plan to do some denoising in post as suggested in another thread. There's something about the gritty look of the D90 that i really like, most HD just looks too clean for my liking.
When the bankers can get away with stealing trillions, what's one D90 body? Just don't try doing any firmware updates after your warranty runs out cause karma will get you and your D90 will die.
Was the D90 cooking under some tungstens when it overheated?
My main concern with the D90 is how the compression artifacts will look when it's blown up to 35mm. I do plan to do some denoising in post as suggested in another thread. There's something about the gritty look of the D90 that i really like, most HD just looks too clean for my liking.
When the bankers can get away with stealing trillions, what's one D90 body? Just don't try doing any firmware updates after your warranty runs out cause karma will get you and your D90 will die.
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so would i. very good point. as for image quality if mann can blow up f900 footage gained 36db to the big screen i'm sure you can live with some dct artifacts.
/matt
Coco Bermudez
Well-known member
Again...to me it is all about the headaches and your workflow. As much as I love the look of the D90, I do not think I would have the patience to shoot a movie with this thing. I need controls...I need to set up averything in manual and go. I don't have time to reset everything again once I shut the camera off...I don't have the time to make sure that the scene matches with the one I shot two days ago if I need to shoot a pick up.
Like I said...at the end it is your choice if you want to shoot this thing with your cell phone...words of wisdom...have a get together with your crew and let them know what you are thinking and what tools you will use and what to expect. Eventhough you are the director, i 've shot a couple of shorts and crews get short tempered when things are not moving along smooth and there is a lot of downtime in between takes.
Just my opinion
Richard J. Johnson
Joystick Member
I would never even think about trying that one. I bought a HVX200 for $3000.00 with 2- 8 gig cards.
Matthew Bennett
Well-known member
5d.
Wheres the blowup budget in that 3,000??
Get a 5d, some martial artists, and shoot an action movie in a major city. You could proably sell that
Wheres the blowup budget in that 3,000??
Get a 5d, some martial artists, and shoot an action movie in a major city. You could proably sell that
Coco Bermudez
Well-known member
lol...good point!
Zack Birlew
Veteran
But that's just it, the Best Buy didn't care, I did. So, if there was any bad karma it was on Best Buy's part somehow, maybe by having such a deceptive extended warranty plan but, for one lucky customer, it unexpectedly worked out. If anything I must have had some good karma going or something and I made sure to ask thoroughly before accepting the kit, so definitely no bad karma on my part.
Getting back on topic, I didn't realize you were planning to print the D90 footage to 35mm. That I can't help you on as I have no idea how it will look, I don't think anybody has tried that yet with the D90. Denoising the footage may or may not work as your worst enemy is actually the compression artifacts, not necessarily noise. I would say try some testing with a short scene and see how it looks normally, with denoising, with sharpening, with softening, with 1080P blowup, and maybe with color correction and no color correction, that way you get a better idea of what you can and can't do for your blowup. If the 1080P blowup with softening looks the best, do that to the rest of your footage and print it or if the 1080P blowup doesn't do anything, forget it and try it with any other combination of post treatment, that's the point of the tests.
export a still from the d90, make sure you use my (or lee's) stairstep removal, grade a couple of versions, take them to a lab that does digital to slides, pay maybe $5 each, go home and project them. sure it's different when it's not in motion but it will give you an idea. i've never done it with d90 footage but i have with hdv and it's quite revealing.
/matt
/matt
squig
Veteran
Hehe, crew, what crew? This is a no budget feature.
Coco Bermudez
Well-known member
uh...not to be unpolite or anything...but if you have no crew, I seriously doubt that your movie then has the merit to be blown up to 35mm...unless I am missing something.
If you are serious of doing movies, then you will get some sort of crew to help you out...even if all they get is a couple of pizzas as payment. No matter how small your movie is... or no matter how "no budget" it is...you still need to treat using the basic principles of moviemaking...as if you had the money
How about a D90 and a HV30 teamed up, how well would that match ? What about if I added a 35mm DOF Adapter to the HV30 with a matching lens as to the one I'm using on the D90 at the time ? Only difference being 1 a Nikon lens and the other a Canon (or get a Canon to Nikon adapter also). I'm just exploring every option . I think the d90 will be great for close-ups, lower light conditions, etc. The HV30 for motion shots or action . Anybody have any other suggestions ? the D5 has issues of it's own and I actually like the d90 for what it does. I'd be saving a ton of money also that I can put to other things if I went with the d90.
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Coco Bermudez
Well-known member
I believe that all 35mm adapters have a very unnatural DOF. It is like a forced DOF. If you look at the latest Zacuto camera shooout you will see what i am talking about.
Might as well stick with the HV30 and get a faster workflow and all your shots will match in post
that's what i'm doing on my current project. they match really well. the bokeh is very different but the sharpness is similar and the slight softness too. i use a "daniel" diy adapter with the canon ee-s focusing screen since i've found that to give the best bokeh by far in any adapter i've seen, not as "forced" using super8's expression.
/matt
Coco Bermudez
Well-known member
Well to me, all 35mm adapters give you too much DOF...not in par with what you would find on film. I can't explain why. But take a look at the Red and the D90 when it comes to DOF...almost the same. Now take a look at the Letus with the HVX200... exaggerated DOF in my own opinion.
And I believe they used the same lens for all tests.
