D800

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FYI: Speaking of aliasing, moire & the D800: I had the following email exchange this week.

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Hi Peter,

Thanks for writing. Yes; we're thinking very much of making a filter for the D800/D880e. Indeed, we're getting many inquiries on these cameras - which is telling. I will tell you, though, that we haven't actually seen one of the cameras yet... or any raw video from one, for that matter, where we could closely analyze what's going on with its video.

In any case, we'll keep your email here, and let you know directly as things progress.

Thanks again and best regards,

--Dave Cubanski

David Cubanski
Mosaic Engineering, Inc.
210 W. Hamilton Ave. #290
State College, PA, 16801, USA
(+01) 814-359-6290
cubanski@mosaicengineering.com
http://www.mosaicengineering.com


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At 12:03 PM 3/19/2012, Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Hi,


I'm wondering if you plan to make available a filter similar to the VAF-5D2 optical anti-aliasing filter, but for Nikon's new D800 DSLR?
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Grug said:
Here are some 100% crops from the new 'temple' video. Looks like alaising, and colour noise in the shadows are both issues:
Click to expand...

That's not aliasing. That's interlace! Someone has picked one of the 'bad' frames after 3:2 pulldown has been applied. It could be crappy h.264 compression, but that isn't a reflection of the camera's capabilities (see comments below on a D800 clip).

If you see the same problem in the previous frame and the immediately following frame, then there's a problem. If not, then blame it on 3:2 pulldown -- and move on!

note: I DLed the dpreview D800 sample clip titled 'drummer.mov'. It was captured using the "HQ" h.264 compressor. Lots of diagonal lines. NO jaggies. None.
If the D800 can get this clip 'right' with its HQ compressor, then I can safely assume that the obvious problems in the 'frame grabs' from the temple video are not the camera's fault.

I did see some false colour artifacts in the drummer.mov clip -- I have no idea how the artifacts were generated.

See the top edge of the black plastic milk crate, left of the drummer, the front rightmost edge.
The colour of the crate edge shifts around from frame to frame. The effect is easier to see in 2x zoom.

-- Bob Elkind
 
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My conversation with Abraham Lincoln

AL: If you look for the bad in images expecting to find it, you surely will.

Me: I am going to pull the trigger on this camera. I like the image. I am invested in both canon and nikon glass so my decision is solely on my preference. I am, however, amazed at how insane the peeping has gotten. AL: Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be.

Me: So, true Mr. President, so true.
 
pharpsied said:
My conversation with Abraham Lincoln

AL: If you look for the bad in images expecting to find it, you surely will.

Me: I am going to pull the trigger on this camera. I like the image. I am invested in both canon and nikon glass so my decision is solely on my preference. I am, however, amazed at how insane the peeping has gotten. AL: Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be.

Me: So, true Mr. President, so true.
Click to expand...

hey, many agree with you but how many cameras do YOU have already and how long before you need... yet another 'fix' ?
 
eteam said:
That's not aliasing. That's interlace! Someone has picked one of the 'bad' frames after 3:2 pulldown has been applied. It could be crappy h.264 compression, but that isn't a reflection of the camera's capabilities (see comments below on a D800 clip).

If you see the same problem in the previous frame and the immediately following frame, then there's a problem. If not, then blame it on 3:2 pulldown -- and move on!

note: I DLed the dpreview D800 sample clip titled 'drummer.mov'. It was captured using the "HQ" h.264 compressor. Lots of diagonal lines. NO jaggies. None.
If the D800 can get this clip 'right' with its HQ compressor, then I can safely assume that the obvious problems in the 'frame grabs' from the temple video are not the camera's fault.

I did see some false colour artifacts in the drummer.mov clip -- I have no idea how the artifacts were generated.

See the top edge of the black plastic milk crate, left of the drummer, the front rightmost edge.
The colour of the crate edge shifts around from frame to frame. The effect is easier to see in 2x zoom.

-- Bob Elkind
Click to expand...

Good observations, Bob. Not in front of my computer right now, but I see some moving color patterns in the backpack on the ground in that clip. Your thoughts?
 
The D800 is going to be a very popular stills camera. Very. Good job Sony/Nikon.

Now if only there can be some custom, or tailored video picture profiles to use all of that DR.
 
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Bob, the same pixelated edges can be seen in both the preceeding and following frames in all instances I posted, so I'm pretty sure their not 'off' frames. I wonder what else might be causing it?
 
Grug said:
Bob, the same pixelated edges can be seen in both the preceeding and following frames in all instances I posted, so I'm pretty sure their not 'off' frames. I wonder what else might be causing it?
Click to expand...
Thank you for the followup.

Some speculation on how such artifacts might have been generated:

  • h.264 compression artifacts
  • incorrect reversal of progressive=>interlaced conversion, with frame boundaries misaligned by one (interlaced) field.
  • incorrect reversal of 3:2 pulldown, due to absence of markers

Unless the video file was recorded directly by/from the camera, it is wise and prudent to avoid pointing the finger of blame in regard to artifacts, given incomplete or inconclusive reports.

In the case of the drummer clip, the generation of the file is made clear: D800 h.264 in-camera recording in HQ mode.
Any artifacts in this clip are provided by the camera itself. Direct (Live) HDMI output is very likely be equal or better, and is unlikely to be worse.

-- Bob Elkind
 
Just got files from a colleague who shot in studio with D800 and Epic. After noticing the DP review clips had a little aliasing and moire, I was eager to see this since I wasn't going to be fully sure until I knew who shot it under what conditions etc. Long story short- There is some aliasing ( pixel peeping mode of course ). There is some moire ( however I've seen this on very high end systems costing many x the D800 ). The D800's DR is really good, and definitely has more resolution than either the 5dMII or the new 5DMIII. Color is very organic. The D800's still side is the closest I've seen at this price range to my medium format and 4x5 resolution, minus the FOV lens characteristics/larger negative/sensor area of course. However resolution is sweet. This camera is going to set a price precedent for high end still acquisition that''s for sure.

Rolling shutter- Nikon's D800 definitely has this under control- longer lens shots show minimum RS compared to what we have seen on other cameras. Why is Canon not like this!?!

Pappas
http://pappasarts.wordpress.com/
http://twitter.com/pappasarts
 
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I've got to say, it's all looking very good for the most part. DR in video mode is my biggest interest, if it's higher than the other sub-$10k cameras, then with 4:2:2 ProRes recording and the Vistavision sensor - Nikon will get my money. However with NAB a couple of weeks away and Mitch from Abelcine suggesting there are new cameras and new updates to existing cameras on the way - I'll hold off any final decisions for the next 3 weeks.

After that, I won't be able to stomach diddling over camera specs any longer and will finally fork out the cash on a camera and stop worrying about it (won't that be nice?!)

I've said it before, I'll say it again - it's a bloody exciting time to be making motion pictures.
 
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