D800

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those previous moire tests are very funny

at least they are after watching this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8GRBVWxKc7g
http://www.eoshd.com/content/7489/first-test-of-nikon-d800-hdmi-output

I'm extremely disappointed, for two reasons:
* HDMI-out is interlaced. Really. As in "the same way that we used to rock back in the 20th century". Thanks, but no, thanks.
* See those horizontal lines in the notebook page? See how they randomly change from green to red? Guess what that is. Exactly. Any camera movement and you'd be watching full-rainbow psychedelic footage. Can't wait for the brick wall tests from angry users to appear.
 
Ever watch the news in HD? You'll often see moire on the newscasters clothes, depending on what their wearing. And that's on their $100,000 cameras. I see it a lot in Los Angeles stations and national live shows. You CAN'T totally get rid of moire unless you shoot with a coke bottle. You just need to learn how to shoot video in different environments.
 
NormanBates said:
those previous moire tests are very funny

at least they are after watching this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8GRBVWxKc7g
http://www.eoshd.com/content/7489/first-test-of-nikon-d800-hdmi-output

I'm extremely disappointed, for two reasons:
* HDMI-out is interlaced. Really. As in "the same way that we used to rock back in the 20th century". Thanks, but no, thanks.
* See those horizontal lines in the notebook page? See how they randomly change from green to red? Guess what that is. Exactly. Any camera movement and you'd be watching full-rainbow psychedelic footage. Can't wait for the brick wall tests from angry users to appear.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is a camera available anywhere that does not wrap their progressive frames in interlaced when outputting through HDMI.

I expect to see some moire issues on this camera. Just a matter of how bad it ends up being, and if it is something I can live with or not.
 
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dfreerider said:
I don't think there is a camera available anywhere that does not wrap their progressive frames in interlaced when outputting through HDMI.
Click to expand...

Yep. This is a limitation of the HDMI specs. Not the camera. Nikon is just following the HDMI rules. The solution to this, and honestly it's pretty easy, is to remove the pulldown in post or on the fly with an external recorder that supports real-time pulldown.

CORRECTION: According to Bob, an electrical engineer who works with HDMI, this is wrong. Check out his other posts
 
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dfreerider said:
I don't think there is a camera available anywhere that does not wrap their progressive frames in interlaced when outputting through HDMI.

I expect to see some moire issues on this camera. Just a matter of how bad it ends up being, and if it is something I can live with or not.
Click to expand...

just loving my HV20 just now > HD24p>RemovePulldown>Edit in Prores 422. So ancient, so crude and so dirt cheap !
 
I've had a look at the D800 manual. It has an auto overheating shutdown function and movie live view won't turn back on if it's too hot. I'm thinking that a 36MP sensor could possibly get a lot hotter than the lower pixel count sensors we're used to.
 
HDMI supports 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p30, 1080i50, and 1080i60 (and more!). See section 6.3.2 of the HDMI specification, version 1.3a, which can be downloaded for free after registration here.

As an experienced HDMI interface designer, I can assure you that the same interface hardware will support 1080i60/50 and 1080p30/25/24 with trivial logic changes. For all of these signal formats, the pixel rates and clock frequencies are identical (give or take the optional 0.1% slowdown for the 60/30/24 Hz-based frame rates).

-- Bob Elkind
 
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md673 said:
Thanks Bob...
Click to expand...

Honestly, I do mean thanks, and I don't mean to sound grumpy about your comment. The information I'm going off of is what I've found online in the last few weeks. The majority of my experience with HD signals is over HD-SDI. The only things I use with HDMI are my Xbox and Blu-Ray player. I really hope you're right about the D800. A true 24p HDMI output would make my life a lot easier as I've been planning to remove the pulldown with an external recorder.
 
Hey guys I got a few questions that I cant seem to find the answer for after a few searches:
1: Can you record redundancies on both CF and SD card?
2: Does the VR work while recording? I know that should be a yes but have yet to see it in writing

Those are my big two
 
Jon Neely said:
Hey guys I got a few questions that I cant seem to find the answer for after a few searches:
2: Does the VR work while recording? I know that should be a yes but have yet to see it in writing
o
Click to expand...

Are you referring to the VR(vibration reduction) in the lens? If so, than yes, it will work when recording because it's a function of the lens, not the camera.
 
Zephyrnoid said:
just loving my HV20 just now > HD24p>RemovePulldown>Edit in Prores 422. So ancient, so crude and so dirt cheap !
Click to expand...
Haha, yes. Very cool. New vintage. =) I may be getting a fancy cellphone, they are becoming quite compelling little video cameras.

Back to the topic, it seemed the HDMI is better than the in camera look. Even when viewed on youtube, even with interlacing. It will be interesting to see it out in the wild some more with more movement and some occasional unpredictable lighting.
 
First of all. Thanks to Bob for being so lucid and so level headed in his portrayal of:
- HDMI Specs vis a vis playback versus capture functionality
- Nikon's (still murky) characterization of the implementation in the D800/D4
It will remain to be seen if Nikon's published specs, marketing hype and the responses that folks have gotten from Nikon, mean that we're looking at 1080i or 1080p out the HDMI port.
One 'oops' makes all the difference there. As Bob so clearly stated, a simple hook up of the subject cameras to your 1080p monitor or TV will be the answer.
Like Bob, I have a longer history in stills than in video (3 to 1), but i do know that manufacturers eager for market share, tend to twist words to legally make then sound better than they really are. I have one technical question for Bob.
It's clear that HDMI out, weather 1080p or 1080i is way better than artifact'd data from internal camera codecs. This is what nikon and others have started to refer to as Uncompressed Out or "Clean HDMI". Based on this, what advantage is offered in HDSDI, a recognized pro standard interface for HD signal transfer? In other words, is there a difference in the Specs for HDSDI vs HDMI (for recording) with respect to the flavor of 1080?
Further, as Apple's Thunderbolt Interface becomes more ubiquitous, is it yet another possible interface option in the future?

On this note, I bow my head in appreciation to Apple for Firewire... the grand-daddy of the digital data interfaces... on desktop computers. RIP
 
"On this note, I bow my head in appreciation to Apple for Firewire... the grand-daddy of the digital data interfaces... on desktop computers. RIP"

Actually SDI is the grand daddy. There was, and still is, thousands of miles of HD-SDI and SD-SDI cabling in the world. Plus interfaces,etc.
 
(I'm always upset when people talk about "Apple's Thunderbolt interface"; you know it is Intel that developed that, right? all Apple did was be the first one to use it; I wouldn't say this is quite enough for it to be their interface; it's definitely Intel's)
 
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