D4 - do not get too excited

Yak

Yak

Well-known member
Here is some info from the EOSHD forum http://www.eoshd.com/content/6757/live-qa-with-nikon-reveals-nikon-d4-video-shortcomings

[h=1]Q&A with Nikon reveals D4 video shortcomings[/h]





"Nikon have answered in depth a huge range of video related questions for the new Nikon D4. EOSHD gives you the good, the bad and the ugly…
The good
Real-time noise reduction on the sensor channels during video recording.
Improved light metering, one of the worst things about the D7000 was no proper metering in live view and video mode. However on the D4 there is a live histogram and proper metering.
The bad
To activate 1080p HDMI at 8bit 4-2-2 you have to remove both cards from the camera. No simultaneous recording.
Nikon say that with cards inserted “HDMI is only suitable for monitoring purposes” – so no full HD 4-2-2 for monitoring?
No focus assist when connected to an HDMI monitor
Live view has proper exposure simulation in full manual mode but switches off after 60 minutes to cool the camera.
No dedicated flat / cinema picture profile.
The ugly
The downsampling of the sensor is similar to the Nikon J1, a $499 mirrorless camera. According to Nikon, “subsampling is only along each horizontal video line; there’s no sub-sampling between video lines.
” Frankly this is bloody ridiculous. I’ve seen the results of this on the J1 and it isn’t pretty – sheering on fine diagonal patterns and very soft detail. I expect better from a pro DSLR. With that in mind don’t expect resolution on the D4 to beat the GH2 or Canon 1DX with DIGIC 5.
A worse battery. Apparently regulation changes in Japan have forced a maximum capacity to batteries less than once allowed so the D4 has significantly less battery life than previous models. Expeed 3 is also far more power hungry."
 
Yak said:
The downsampling of the sensor is similar to the Nikon J1, a $499 mirrorless camera. According to Nikon, “subsampling is only along each horizontal video line; there’s no sub-sampling between video lines.
” Frankly this is bloody ridiculous. I’ve seen the results of this on the J1 and it isn’t pretty – sheering on fine diagonal patterns and very soft detail. I expect better from a pro DSLR. With that in mind don’t expect resolution on the D4 to beat the GH2 or Canon 1DX with DIGIC 5.
Click to expand...

This is the only one that strikes me as an actual problem. The D90 had a similar problem and we used to fix it by running the clips through Avisynth or After Effects. A pretty simple fix, really, but an extra step like this shouldn't be necessary in a $6,000 camera body.
 
Here's why I am excited. Forget everything about the D4. Every single feature. The fact that they provided 2 features that have been widely requested puts pressure on the other manufacturers to include them also. I'm not saying they will....but the pressure and loss of potential sales is present due to Nikon's D4 announcement. (Clean HDMI out at 1080P being the most significant....)

Whatever they produce as far as quality this cycle, let's all just hope that they force the others to include this feature....as well as improving that feature in future releases. :)

Cheers!
 
HHL said:
Here's why I am excited. Forget everything about the D4. Every single feature. The fact that they provided 2 features that have been widely requested puts pressure on the other manufacturers to include them also. I'm not saying they will....but the pressure and loss of potential sales is present due to Nikon's D4 announcement. (Clean HDMI out at 1080P being the most significant....)

Whatever they produce as far as quality this cycle, let's all just hope that they force the others to include this feature....as well as improving that feature in future releases. :)

Cheers!
Click to expand...

+1 Exactly my thoughts.. The D4 is a step into the right direction.

PS: I'm guessing the 5D Mark III will be Canon's response video-wise.
 
The lower priced DSLRs are bound to get clean outputs too like the D800, D400, D8000. Canon will likely follow suit. I would imagine by the end of the year a $1300 body will have uncompressed out. Add a ninja and an SSD and for $2500 you have an uber indie rebel cam! They could just include a decent codec like 100Mbit/s m-jpeg and most people could do without the external recorder.
 
Yak said:
Here is some info from the EOSHD forum http://www.eoshd.com/content/6757/live-qa-with-nikon-reveals-nikon-d4-video-shortcomings

[h=1]Q&A with Nikon reveals D4 video shortcomings[/h]





"Nikon have answered in depth a huge range of video related questions for the new Nikon D4. EOSHD gives you the good, the bad and the ugly…
The good
Real-time noise reduction on the sensor channels during video recording.
Improved light metering, one of the worst things about the D7000 was no proper metering in live view and video mode. However on the D4 there is a live histogram and proper metering.
The bad
To activate 1080p HDMI at 8bit 4-2-2 you have to remove both cards from the camera. No simultaneous recording.
Nikon say that with cards inserted “HDMI is only suitable for monitoring purposes” – so no full HD 4-2-2 for monitoring?
No focus assist when connected to an HDMI monitor
Live view has proper exposure simulation in full manual mode but switches off after 60 minutes to cool the camera.
No dedicated flat / cinema picture profile.
The ugly
The downsampling of the sensor is similar to the Nikon J1, a $499 mirrorless camera. According to Nikon, “subsampling is only along each horizontal video line; there’s no sub-sampling between video lines.
” Frankly this is bloody ridiculous. I’ve seen the results of this on the J1 and it isn’t pretty – sheering on fine diagonal patterns and very soft detail. I expect better from a pro DSLR. With that in mind don’t expect resolution on the D4 to beat the GH2 or Canon 1DX with DIGIC 5.
A worse battery. Apparently regulation changes in Japan have forced a maximum capacity to batteries less than once allowed so the D4 has significantly less battery life than previous models. Expeed 3 is also far more power hungry."
Click to expand...


I´ve watched the WHY video on youtube at 1080 and I see ZERO moire and aliasing artifacts in there. I´m not saying there will not be any, but if there isn´t any on a 7 minute video full of different shots, different locations and completely different lenses (from wide to telephoto) I wouldn´t be too worried.

I'd be more interested in requesting a LOG picture profile to help improve DR, highlights clip a bit to early for my taste.
 
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macgregor said:
I´ve watched the WHY video on youtube at 1080 and I see ZERO moire and aliasing artifacts in there. I´m not saying there will not be any, but if there isn´t any on a 7 minute video full of different shots, different locations and completely different lenses (from wide to telephoto) I wouldn´t be too worried.

I'd be more interested in requesting a LOG picture profile to help improve DR, highlights clip a bit to early for my taste.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that video is done very well and looks as usable as ANY other camera on the market. It's amazing how people look at things sometimes. Tell me the "Why" video looks anything short of amazing. I am very, very impressed with the quality I see ad I'm not even a Nikon fan.
 
Kit Hannah said:
Yeah, that video is done very well and looks as usable as ANY other camera on the market. It's amazing how people look at things sometimes. Tell me the "Why" video looks anything short of amazing. I am very, very impressed with the quality I see ad I'm not even a Nikon fan.
Click to expand...

i also am very impressed by the quality judging from the "Why" video and also see zero moire and aliasing artifacts , what i see is beautiful colors , and a much organic look but still with decent sharpness , judging just by the video the DR look much better , and if you look in the comments in vimeo those guys didnt even used an external recorder so who knows what it can do - and i quote "all video was recorded internally to CF . clean hdmi was not confirmed to us at the time of the production "
Yak :- i think you should stop looking at the specs and technical stuff too much and just wait and see when the camera is shipped , god people stop whining we should really be pleased the nikon finally stepped up their game ( do i have to remind they are the first to introduce hdslr camera at the first place ) , Comeon UNCOMPRESSED HDMI OUTPUT - Give them a little credit ,no other camera offers this yet , i say BRAVO NIKON , and am very excited about D4 and upcoming D800 , looks promising :)
 
Has anybody been able to download the original file "WHY" because personally I am not amazed by the detail. Mostly in the skin which are very plasticky. Now it could be the vimeo compression, very very shallow depth of field or the avchd codec. But it is bothering me a bit. I am perhaps too much accustomed to the hacked gh2 details.

I hope it is not the case because as a pro Nikon shooter, I have been desperately hopping that they would enter the hdslr game. Feature wise it is fantastic and I knew that Nikon had the potential to be a real contender in the hybrid dslr market. I am planning to buy the rumored d800, it is more in my line of photography. I would be disappointed to have the Canon 5d resolution in video. Guess I will have to wait and see and hope that it is not the case. In case it is I will still have my gh2 for video, the investment is already done.
 
t.p. said:
i
Yak :- i think you should stop looking at the specs and technical stuff too much and just wait and see when the camera is shipped , god people stop whining .....
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FYI - I am not whining, I found some info on the D4 that I felt could be helpful to others. I am very interested in the D4 so that I can use some of my Nikon glass including a Nikon-Nock 58mm 1.2. This could be a very good camera but I am now concerned that it appears to use line skipping an is unable to use the internal recording at the same time as HDMI recording. I agree that we will need to see the final product to tell for sure if this camera fits our needs, but the early reports raise some issues that will need further investigation.
 
macgregor said:
I'd be more interested in requesting a LOG picture profile to help improve DR, highlights clip a bit to early for my taste.
Click to expand...

To me it looks like they could have used better in camera settings. I always felt it's easy to have too much contrast baked in with Nikons.

Danielvilliers said:
...because personally I am not amazed by the detail. Mostly in the skin which are very plasticky. Now it could be the vimeo compression, very very shallow depth of field or the avchd codec. But it is bothering me a bit.
Click to expand...

Same here. I stayed up all night (Europe) when D4 was announced, and when they finally posted WHY on youtube I felt a little bit clueless. It was like watching a D3s video with slightly better resolution. Secretely I had hoped for clearly visible improvements on dynamic range and resolution.
 
Danielvilliers said:
Has anybody been able to download the original file "WHY" because personally I am not amazed by the detail. Mostly in the skin which are very plasticky. Now it could be the vimeo compression, very very shallow depth of field or the avchd codec. But it is bothering me a bit. I am perhaps too much accustomed to the hacked gh2 details.
Click to expand...

Pixel peeping will make you go blind! 24Mbit/s AVCHD to vimeo = plasticky. The D800 is rumoured to be 36 megapixels so I expect it will have moire issues and won't be any near as good in low light.
 
Keep in mind the rumoured specs talked about a lowpass filter for video. I can't see it mentioned anywhere in the official release specs, but I don't see anything that says it ISN'T there. Anyway, something tells me the aliasing/moire issues have been adressed. We'll see when people start getting their hands on these cameras.


As far as the D800 goes, that camera makes me wonder...
The higher pixelcount of the sensor may not speak well for video-capabilities, but then why would Nikon spend a fortune on shooting a big budget motorcycle-racing ad with the DP form Avatar (on the d800, mind you)? This is unlike anything Nikon has done before when it comes to marketing of their cameras. Video has usually been documentary-style, sports and nature etc, unlike Canon who has commisioned fictional/narrtive works of Vincent Laforet etc. This time they will really make a point of the video-capabilities, more so than with the d4 even, and that makes me wonder what they've got up their sleves.

(The ad I'm talking about is not out yet, of course, as with the D800: http://nikonrumors.com/2011/12/08/nikon-d800-commercial-was-filmed-in-chicago.aspx/ )
 
Also, considering that the D4 has an optimized video OLPF, uncompressed 8-bit 4:2:2 HDMI output, 3 modes of auto-focus for video, 3 different crop factors including 1:1, audio monitoring and metering, video histo's, remote triggering and very high ISO / low noise capability, I would say that there actually is a lot to get excited about. In particular, this camera will probably trounce any other camera in terms of low light capability, as did the D3S.
 
I'm excited. Looks like a great camera. The only problem I have is the $6,000 price tag. Hope we see some of these features like the audio controls etc on the D800 or D400
 
canon tech1: "Hey'd ya see the specs on the D4"

canon tech2: "Yea ain't that cute, i think they actually want to compete with us"

canon tech3: "will you two get back to work already, i want that EOS C prototype ready for rape by spring"
 
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