FS7: Custom Scene File to match the LC709TypeA LUT

[vladwolodarsky]

Thanks Doug! Since it's a s-log 2 bright white should still be at 59% IRE?

 

[Doug Jensen]

Ahh... I think I know why I see different results. I guess your Custom Scene File is meant to match the Cine EI LC709A when it is used with Slog2, not Slog3 ?

Nope. That's a good guess but my scene file is meant to match the 709typeA look profile when the camera is set for CINE EI S-Gamut3.Cine - Slog3 I apologize for not making that clear. I'm going to make an edit on the page that describes the scene file so thank you for pointing that out. And don't worry my previous comments were not directed to anyone in particular.

 

[Doug Jensen]

Thanks Doug! Since it's a s-log 2 bright white should still be at 59% IRE?

Nope. The 709A LUT and this scene file are both meant to provide a WYSIWYG finished look so exposing white at 59% would be way too low. As I mention in step #8, exposure should be around 85-90%. http://www.vortexmedia.com/DJ-LC709typeA_Scene_File.html

 

[vladwolodarsky]

Okay, I've done some tests with myself as the subject. I can get some reliable fleshtones with HG2 in custom mode.

In s-log2 or s-log 3 my skin tones still look washed out after applying a LUT. My skintones also look washed out in the Alexa custom profile Doug created. My color chart looks spot on though!? I'm pretty pasty so maybe the knee is compressing the signal where my skin tones are? For the custom s-log profiles I am putting bright white at 60IRE(and for doug's alexa profile at 85%), so I believe I am exposing it correctly.

 

[Doug Jensen]

First of all, there is no knee applied whenever S-LOG is the gamma. Second, I don't know what you mean by "washed out". Do you mean lack of saturation, low contrast, raised blacks, or what? Showing some examples would help a lot to identify where things have gone wrong. I assure you that the profile should not look washed out and it shouldn't look washed out after you apply a LUT to S-LOG in any circumstances. I think something is being done wrong in your testing. Thanks for taking a look at it, though, I just need more information to pinpoint what the problem is.

 

[ulimors]

Here is what lc709a is all about and how it was developed by art adams:

http://www.dvinfo.net/article/post/making-the-sony-f55-look-filmic-with-resolve-9.html

most of it is about desaturating colors dependend on the brightness.

regards

uki

 

[dcarstens]

Thank you Doug! Used the profile on a two camera shoot this week in a variety of less than optimal lighting conditions. Very happy with the he resulting look. I did raise the black level to avoid the crushed darks in the original profile.

 

[Doug Jensen]

Thanks for the feedback. It is nice to hear that you liked it. I've decided that as soon as I have time I'm going to see if I can create a similar profile for the FS5.

 

[cuervo]

Doug,
Any chance I could get you to port that Custom LC709A Scene File over to a PMW-F5?

 

[Gnasher]

Thanks for sharing Do you happen to know if Sony also offers a description for each of its 9 Picture profiles on the FS5?

 

[Doug Jensen]

Doug,
Any chance I could get you to port that Custom LC709A Scene File over to a PMW-F5?

I'll be working on that soon and if I am successful (not sure it can be done) the details will be in my FS5 training video and field guide that I'm working on full time now.


EDIT: Oops, sorry I just noticed that your question was about the F5 and not the FS5. I have FS5 on the brain right now. Someone who is high up at Sony on the technical side sent me a private email two days ago to let me know they manually input my FS7 profile settings into an FS5 and it looked great to them and identical to their FS7. So if you can get someone to transcribe ALL the settings from an FS7 (there are dozens of them) you could enter them manually into your F5 and expect them to work well. As I have said before, I just don't have the time to go through the picture profile and write down all the settings. If someone else wants to write them down and post them I wouldn't object.

 

[Doug Jensen]

Thanks for sharing Do you happen to know if Sony also offers a description for each of its 9 Picture profiles on the FS5?

Sony? Offer a description of their picture profiles?? Ha, that is a laugh. No, Sony never gives us meaningful details of anything to do with profiles or paint menus. Either you like they way the way a profile looks or you don't, it's really as simple as that. The reasoning behind them doesn't matter because the engineers don't know what makes a pretty picture anyway. If you look through the settings of those profiles you'll see that the only difference between most of them is two menu settings, and at most three menu settings. That is hardly a recipe for maximizing the capabilities of the camera.

 

[Clermond]

I tested 3 different set ups in direct comparison

- Alistar's filmlike1 HG7,
- Doug's sLOG2 match to CINE LC709A
- Slog3 with a LUT which I created in Ben's LUTCalc app by a simple transfer of LC709A CINE to custom sLOG3.

All these three set ups are usable. With AC HG the skins are a little desaturated and a little too dark but you can handle it easily in post. Doug's scene file gets noisy if you underexpose. IMO there is not too much headroom in post but it looks nice if you expose correct or even a bit over. In the end I found custom sLOG3 plus the CINE2custom LUT most suitable. Very nice skin tones, noise suppression, individual white balance, variable ISO and very flexible in workflow.

I used it for the first time for a client's project last week.
Changing light from dull to sunny, just 7°C / 44°F.
Edited in FCPX, ColorFinal with the LUT and very small corrections with a curve, no color tweaking.

 

[Doug Jensen]

Hi Clermond, thanks for the feedback and I think your images look really nice.
Just to be clear, my intent with creating that scene file was just to see if I could match the camera's LC709A LUT -- I would never actually use it myself because I have other scene files I think look better. Plus I'm more likely to be shooting nice clean Cine EI with no LUT at all anyway. But I do appreciate the feedback nevertheless.

 

[rudo_fr]

Great feedback Clermond, is it possible to post you scene file for we can test ourself?

thank you.

 

[Will Clegg]

I made a word document with all (literally every single one) of the Paint settings for Doug's 709A look, download here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jwyng3q0p40qj3h/PAINT settings for DJ-TYPEA-LOOK - PMW-FS7.docx?dl=0

I even put in the settings that are grayed out because you can't change them... that way this can be used as a template for documenting other paint settings as well.

Next step, trying to put these settings into my FS5 and see what happens!

 

[Donny 123]

Thanks Will

 

[Doug Jensen]

Thanks Will, it's great to have all the settings documented. Very much appreciated.

 

[vilrockerdefer]

Hello,

I've had unsatisfying results with the factory settings out of the box and for a long time I wanted to improve on that but didn't have much time. I usually use STD5 Rec709 in custom mode, but find that some colors are really bad, especially green from tree leaves for example.



So I tried the DJ-TYPEA-LOOK, but as I need to shoot something that can go directly on air, because I shoot for TV news and delays are inexistant, I found that first loading the scene file and then changing the gamma to STD5 Rec709 and turning the auto knee back on provides very satisfying results (I only got to test it on one shot so far...).



Do you think my approach is valid ? Is that necessarily a very bad idea ?

Thank you very much.

 

[Doug Jensen]

Is it just my monitor, or are all those clouds clipped? If so, then yes, it is a very bad idea.