FS7: Custom Scene File to match the LC709TypeA LUT

Doug Jensen

Doug Jensen

Carbonite Member
Last week I decided to create a scene file to match the look of the LC709typeA LUT. I think I've come pretty close and some beta testers love it, but I welcome any feedback.
The advantage with the scene file is that you get full white balance control, noise reduction, it uses S-LOG2 for better highlight handling, and its just plain easier to use.

You can download it here: http://www.vortexmedia.com/DJ-LC709typeA_Scene_File.html
 
Thanks, Dough. Can you specify the details so that we don't have to check all settings?
btw your masterclass was very helpful for a quick start with the camera
 
I do not have the settings written down so therefore I can't post them. The file was created with scopes, charts, and some faces for testing, and I really have no idea what the final settings are. But there are dozens of them and it would take too long to go through and write them all down. I would have no objections if someone else wants to take the time to transcribe all the settings and post them, but I won't be doing it. All I ask is that if someone does it they take care to transcribe it completely (every paint menu) and accurately. I also suggest that people either use it all of it or none of it -- so yet another reason not to post the settings. It is not intended to be a jumping off point for customizing, nor is it even what a I consider to be the best look for the camera. My goal was simlply to try to match the 709typeA LUT with a scene file that provides white balance control and other advantages.
 
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Doug,

Thanks for doing the work, & sharing the results!

Are you making a FS5 Guide? Have some friends considering the FS5, & your FS7 guide helped me decide to buy that camera. Watched most of it before committing to the purchase.

Best,
Bern
 
Ben, yes a FS5 training video series and book are already in production. If all goes well the video will be released by the end of January and the book a few weeks later. Thanks for asking.
BTW, at some point I will attempt to create a matching 709typeA look scene file for the FS5, but I'm not sure if it will be possible with the greatly reduced controls on that camera. But I'll give it a try.
 
You can matrix all you like but unless you can desaturate the highlights like LC709A then it's not LC709A. That's not to say Doug's profile won't be a nice profile but the beauty of LC709A is the elimination of the Sony saturated donut rings around lights.
 
The term "as much control" is meaningless since the two methodologies are different, but that is not to say the end results cannot be virtually the same. There are many roads that you can take to get to the same destination. The path to get there does not matter. The paint menus have a wide variety of sophisticated color-oriented settings, including saturation.

I don't know if you would consider my scene file a good match or not, but until you have tested it yourself it seems premature to say it falls short. Maybe it does or maybe it doesn't, but you are assuming it does without comparing them, right?
 
Thank you for taking your time to create the file. Without shooting detailed tests, my first observation is that the contrast is much higher, with crushed low end of the curve and the saturation is also much higher (or maybe just the perception of the saturation due to an increased contrast). I'd say the scene file could be definitely useful but is very different from LC709A. Was your goal to create an LC709A type look but as if additional steps in post were performed (lowered black level / increased contrast and increased saturation) ? Sort of a LC709A on DJ steroids? Is your scene file not loading correctly into my camera or am I doing something wrong - is Master Black really supposed to be at -12 setting ?
 
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Doug Jensen said:
The term "as much control" is meaningless since the two methodologies are different, but that is not to say the end results cannot be virtually the same. There are many roads that you can take to get to the same destination. The path to get there does not matter. The paint menus have a wide variety of sophisticated color-oriented settings, including saturation.

I don't know if you would consider my scene file a good match or not, but until you have tested it yourself it seems premature to say it falls short. Maybe it does or maybe it doesn't, but you are assuming it does without comparing them, right?
Click to expand...

There is no way you can desaturate the highlights with the Paint menu settings using the Slog2 gamma and therefore you cannot emulate the look of the LC709A across the full luminance range.
 
broughtonfilm said:
Thank you for taking your time to create the file. Without shooting detailed tests, my first observation is that the contrast is much higher, with crushed low end of the cure and the saturation is also much higher (or maybe just the perception of the saturation due to an increased contrast). I'd say the scene file could be definitely useful but is very different from LC709A. Was your goal to create an LC709A type look but as if additional steps in post were performed (lowered black level / increased contrast and increased saturation) ? Sort of a LC709A on DJ steroids? Is your scene file not loading correctly into my camera or am I doing something wrong - is Master Black really supposed to be at -12 setting ?
Click to expand...

Thanks for giving it a try. The intent was to create a look that matched the LC709A LUT as closely as possible -- not to improve on it or change it in anyway. Obviously it is impossible to get a perfect match, but none of my tests had markedly higher contrast or higher saturation. Both of those things would be easy to fix by further modifying the file if it was a problem. Would it be possible for you to send me original files from your comparison tests? I will keep them private if you wish. I'd really like to see them. And yes, master black is definitely supposed to be at -12.
 
Osslund, thanks for the support but I completely respect people's right to say I got it wrong. But I hope that people would actually do some controlled A vs. B testing before shooting it down and pissing on it sight unseen. And if they don't think it matches, I'd really like to see some clips that I can look at to see for myself. In my own testing they are very close.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Thanks for giving it a try. The intent was to create a look that matched the LC709A LUT as closely as possible -- not to improve on it or change it in anyway. Obviously it is impossible to get a perfect match, but none of my tests had markedly higher contrast or higher saturation. Both of those things would be easy to fix by further modifying the file if it was a problem. Would it be possible for you to send me original files from your comparison tests? I will keep them private if you wish. I'd really like to see them. And yes, master black is definitely supposed to be at -12.
Click to expand...

I did not mean to piss on your Scene File, I hope you are not referring to my comment.

I haven't shot the actual tests, I was just going by what I was seeing in the EVF (I had the LC709A LUT on in Cine EI). Maybe the actual recorded test would show something slightly different. I'll send something over as soon as I have it.

BTW, I had a chance to use your Scene Files on a recent F800 shoot. Really liked the results. Turns out we sometimes work with the same people. Small world.
 
Colors in Cine EI seem so much closer to what my eye sees, have tried tons of different Custom presets and it never looks as good.

I'll try some tests out for sure. I don't mind having it be a bit crunchier but for me the most important is color in bright greens/reds which is where I usually dislike custom mode. I'd love to have the controls and noise reduction and WB though.

Thanks for sharing.
 
Ahh... I think I know why I see different results. I guess your Custom Scene File is meant to match the Cine EI LC709A when it is used with Slog2, not Slog3 ? My initial comment was based on my comparison of your Scene File with CINE EI Slog3 with LC709A. Cine EI Slog2 LC709A looks closer but still the saturation (especially red) seems higher. Again, sorry for not having the actual tests.
 
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