Crazy discussions at dv.com

smelni

smelni

Veteran
Im not sure if the moderators would like me to so I wont post a link. But if you have a chance take a look at some of the wild conversations about the hvx and p2 over at dv.com.

All technologies have pluses and minuses - that is reality. And P2 has major issues now and there are workarounds - this is always the case with new technologies.

And - the hvx excels in many areas and has issues in others - the same with all cameras and technologies in general.

But over at dv.com people seem hell bent on proving that the hvx and p2 is terrible.

take a look if you have a chance.
 
I'd rather stick here with a community of people who support it. No point in seeing all the couch potatoes opinions who aren't doing anything but waiting for their parents to spank their asses and tell them to get a job.

Wer'e out there doing things and not looking back to see what the reaction is, that's what's great about DVX users.
 
Ive realized its hard to argue for or against P2 because its anyone will know for sure if it sucseeds or fails. So if you dont like it then dont buy it.
 
Mr. Blonde said:
I'd rather stick here with a community of people who support it. No point in seeing all the couch potatoes opinions who aren't doing anything but waiting for their parents to spank their asses and tell them to get a job.

Wer'e out there doing things and not looking back to see what the reaction is, that's what's great about DVX users.
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Geez.

We have a hvx200 on backorder. But there are a bunch of us who ain't couch potatoes, whose parents don't support us, and who are concerned with workflow, redundant backup strategies, and price.

I've been doing this for 14 years, started on a VVS, Media100, and bought one of the first VX1000s ever sold.

P2 technology is very interesting, but it has some issues for some of us.

Those with issues hardly can be stereotyped in such a cavalier way.

Read the thread there on p2 storage concerns. There are some good points being made by people who have used the cam.

All they are saying is that p2 technology seems like a good idea, but it is currently pricey, and redundant backup issues are a serious concern.

It doesn't sound like a bunch of GenX couch potatoes.

take care and best wishes
 
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I think many folks here forget that most people shooting professional video are in now way "indie filmmakers" nor do they aspire to be. As such, they evaluate equipment differently. There are pro's I've spoken to who love the idea of P2, there are pros I've spoken to who hate it. But neither group is lazy or stupid, they're all working NYC pros but they have different requirements.

Mr. Blonde, I don't see why you need to attack people whose views differ from yours? You seem to do this quite a bit, maybe you don't really mean it that way and it's just the way it comes across on the net?
 
Sorry if I came across as being rude but, these topics have been gone over with a magnifying glass and people continue to pick at the same points over and over.

There have been numberous posts expalining the possible workflow with P2 and yet peeople seem to not get it.

If you hate P2 so much, forget about it and pick up the JVC, Sony, or Canon. I notice the same names continue to bicker over it when they should just bite the bullet if they hate P2 so much and go with another cam.
 
Agreed, but if they want to continue to have that conversation among themselves, they get to do that as long as they remain civil. You don't have to read the posts, nor do you have to respond. And you certainly don't need to attack others, who are simply voicing an opinion that differs from your own, without any intention of antagonizing you.
 
Mr. Blonde said:
If you hate P2 so much, forget about it and pick up the JVC, Sony, or Canon. I notice the same names continue to bicker over it when they should just bite the bullet if they hate P2 so much and go with another cam.
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We like the technology. But we are still assessing its potential in two areas: cost and redundant backup.

As we monitor these two issues, we see a drop in costs for 8Gb p2 cards. That's good. We are still awaiting cineporter and firestore. They are at least a month away.

Blu-ray and HD DVD are two redundant backup strategies. Neither are available.

These issues are fluid.

They haven't been yet determined.

So while they are posts discussing workflows here and elsewhere, some of the possible solutions to these issues have not yet been brought to the market to be tested.

Because of that, I certainly do not consider them to be as settled as some of the posters here, and I kind of resent the characterizations of those of us who are concerned with them as being spoiled little brats supported by their parents.

In any case, take care.
 
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If the HVX200 doesn't do it for you and you have your reservations about HDV, wait for the RED then. I don't know what's so hard about that, people could write scripts while they wait or go out and buy The Movies and practice, great game!:)
 
I don't think Mr. Blonde attacked anyone specifically and surely doesn't deserve to be attacked in return ?

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I agree on account: if you're into the tech talk that's great but it bores me to tears. Pixel count? Who cares. Color Sampling ? Pffffffffff ! Whateva '

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One thing's for sure, there's some cowboy's that troll hard and there are definately some kooks over on dv.com (One of the last places to go after being booted from dvxuser and dvinfo :D )

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It goes back to what I said in another thread; I'd love to see the reels of some of these folks that either proclaim to be the greatest thing since Edison invented the lightbulb or they taught the industry how to light ( Excuse me while I laugh my ass off helicopter style all over the office floor) or can't make a decision on which camera to buy if a gun was held to their dog's head.

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John_Hudson said:
I'd love to see the reels of some of these folks that either proclaim to be the greatest thing since Edison invented the lightbulb or they taught the industry how to light
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Hey John, do you think that the economies of workflow and strategies for redundant backup fall within your view?

Just wondering.

We produce nice stuff, and you don't know me. And I'm neither the best nor the worst.

But p2 workflow is different than anything I've done in fourteen years, and I'm trying to learn about it.

That's the discussion over at dv.com, not comparing cams.
 
Hey John, do you think that the economies of workflow and strategies for redundant backup fall within your view
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Speak English Dave

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I have zero intention of dealing with that crap until it's at a price point I can agree with or my work warrants it (tick tock - tick tock). The DVX100, Vegas 5 and my Dell Precision Workstation are all I need and it's smooth sailing until then.

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That being said; I don't know you ? I wasn't even talking about you, mang. In fact, I haven't seen anyone mention your name but I do see you getting awfully worked up.

You okay ? This is dvxuser. Not dv.com. We are mellow here !

:)


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I think Mr Blonde was making reference too the persons proclaiming P2 to be the work of SATAN and not making reference to interested parties of the technology Dave.
 
P2 is a Panasonic thing and having doubts about a Panasonic product is like questioning somebody's religion on this board. I tried to start a thread on P2/tape workflow and it just proved P2 matters cannot be approached with logic. They are religious matters:) If you have doubts you are practically a heretic.
 
John_Hudson said:
Speak English Dave,

In fact, I haven't seen anyone mention your name but I do see you getting awfully worked up.
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Sounds good, John.

p2 cards are pricey for how much they capture in 1080i. We're concerned about that.

That's called "economies of workflow."

No you've not mentioned my name, but some of your posts refer to "some of the users here."

That to me is dismissive without mentioning the 13th actor.

There is a difference between being "worked up," which you incorrectly characterized me as, and being concerned about spending $10K.

We are a small production company trying to learn as much as we can.

If that is being "worked up," as you describe it, may be other people should be as well.

My understanding is that this board is about sharing info.

Some is good, some is not as good, and some is to be continued.

A smiley face and $640.00 will get me a 4Gb p2 card.

That sounds like a great deal. :)

best wishes.
 
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Just ask and I'll tell you if I ever mean you. I will never be dismissive of anyone; I'll tell em ! And the people I made mention of are no loner with us (We had the comet take them away).

I should not have used the term worked-up. I apologize for engaging in a joust.

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I added to the above post this:

I think Mr Blonde (as am I) was making reference to the persons proclaiming P2 to be the work of SATAN and not making reference to interested parties of the technology !

Hopefully the water's are calmer now !
 
John_Hudson said:
I should not have used the term worked-up. I apologize for engaging in a joust.
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Hey, I'm not upset with you.

But sometimes the board doesn't like anything negative or critical of the cam, or the p2 workflow.

We can neither test the cam because there is none available and/or no pro shops within 1,000 miles.

Any critical comments about the cam or the workflow are immediately attacked by some posters who haven't even held the camera or shot footage with it.

I don't get it.

We want to learn as much we can, and wonder why dissenting or critical views are attacked so quickly.

It's kinda of weird in a sense.

And it's not as if I'm pushing another cam.

Anyway, take care.
 
I understand and I think there may be a difference.

This board tolerates quite a bit of critical opinion but there is a difference of being critical and asking the hard questions and to those that are engaged in the' Anti - Pana - P2 Cult' or that engage in generally trollish behavior for the sake of not having ever been laid.

We all want to learn but denouncing a product(s) before they have had a chance to mature over and over and over is intolerable and only serves to flame.

Anyways; we're all good!
 
Look, there is now way of know if P2 will ultimately viable or not. It's a great technology (IMHO) and certainly CAN be viable. But ultimately it's viability is dependent on whether the market embraces it or not. If the market embraces P2 then all the issues that have been discussed will fall into line and it will work fine. If the market doesn't embrace it, it will fall by the wayside. There really isn't much anyone can do other than to wait and see.

I like technical discussions though and am always interested to read about how others design their workflow, regardless of medium.
 
Sounds good.

My immediate annoyance was how the original responder characterized the dv.com discussions as " . . . couch potatoes opinions who aren't doing anything but waiting for their parents to spank their asses and tell them to get a job."

Never a fan of that word, especially in a professional forum as this is.

best wishes
 
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MattC said:
I like technical discussions though and am always interested to read about how others design their workflow, regardless of medium.
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Hopefully, there might be additional solutions for both acquisition and redundant backup.

NAB2006 perhaps
 
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