GH2 Constant aperture zoom with IS?

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dishan

Well-known member
I just came to the realization that there is a glaring absence of glass with constant aperture and IS. Am I just missing something here, or do options not exist for the GH2?

I've heard people say the 14-140mm kit lens is great for documentary work because of the wide zoom range and IS, but how do you guys zoom while shooting? Since the aperture changes as you zoom, you have to pick an f-stop value that is beyond the slowest rating, but even then it doesn't seem to adjust smoothly! I only have the 14-45mm kit at the moment, but in my testing you can visibly see the light get darker as I zoom in, followed by a very quick adjustment of the iris to brighten it up.

This morning I tried setting mine to F/8 outdoors, as I was asked to shoot for an upcoming nature series, and I'm finding that zooming in and out does not smoothly adjust the iris to keep the constant value, but rather "clicks" to adjust itself a moment later. This is how I honestly expected it to work since it is how the Canon variable F-stop kit works as well, but I thought perhaps the GH2 would be different because people said they use the kit like this. Does the 14-140 work the same way as the one I have? Because that effect won't go over well with clients.

I know I can just throw on a Nikon or FD zoom with constant aperture, but I was kind of hoping I can use IS just in case I have trouble keeping the camera still when outdoors (planning to shoot with a monopod or shoulder mount). Am I better off using my Canon body with an EOS IS zoom?
 
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This is the "Holy Grail" of GH-2 lenses that we've all been waiting for. Panasonic has a fast-ish 12-35mm constant aperture zoom in the works, but nobody knows if this will have IS too.
 
So, hang on- even users of the AF100 have this probelm? Is there no constant aperture zoom with IS for the micro 4/3rds mount??

That seems like a pretty serious limitation for a full-sized video camera. I was aware that by choosing to shoot with a DSLR I would be making sacrifices in regard to live event / documentary workflow, but if the AF100 is supposed to be a full sized camera and has the same limitation, this seems to be a pretty serious problem! Suddenly my DVX100 with standard definition and a fixed lens seems better suited for the task at hand! :/
 
dishan said:
So, hang on- even users of the AF100 have this probelm? Is there no constant aperture zoom with IS for the micro 4/3rds mount?
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This is why many of us still own small sensor ENG style cameras to shoot live event work. ( I am still very happy with my HMC-150 for this type of work )

...And the problem goes well beyond the M4/3 format, as there are not many constant aperture zoom lenses with IS for most of the professional large sensor video cameras. The exceptions are the DSLRs which shoot short-clip and lower quality video. ( I can't remember if the EF mount version of the new Canon C-300 supports IS or not, I have a sneaking suspicion that it doesn't )
 
dishan said:
So, hang on- even users of the AF100 have this probelm? Is there no constant aperture zoom with IS for the micro 4/3rds mount??

That seems like a pretty serious limitation for a full-sized video camera. I was aware that by choosing to shoot with a DSLR I would be making sacrifices in regard to live event / documentary workflow, but if the AF100 is supposed to be a full sized camera and has the same limitation, this seems to be a pretty serious problem! Suddenly my DVX100 with standard definition and a fixed lens seems better suited for the task at hand! :/
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I.S or O.I.S is not particularly suited or recommended for shooting from a head and legs (tripod) with.

Shooting nature would probably always require the use of a solid/stable head and legs (tripod).

Not really a "serious problem" at all IMHO
 
TheDingo said:
I can't remember if the EF mount version of the new Canon C-300 supports IS or not, I have a sneaking suspicion that it doesn't
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...Just checked, and the EF mount version of the new Canon C-300 DOES NOT support autofocus, but it DOES support the built-in IS found in Canon IS lenses.
 
Shooter said:
I.S or O.I.S is not particularly suited or recommended for shooting from a head and legs (tripod) with.

Shooting nature would probably always require the use of a solid/stable head and legs (tripod).

Not really a "serious problem" at all IMHO
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Not shooting nature. Shooting a documentary in nature. Basically, following a guy into the woods who is going to describe the history and interesting things he finds.
Otherwise, I would be shooting with primes. But for this sort of shoot, a little zoom and perhaps a bit of camera movement is acceptable if not expected. But to a certain limit, as I know DSLR footage can go south VERY quickly if not properly stabilized.
I do plan to use a monopod and/or shoulder rig. No tripods, not really that kind of gig.
 
I don't know if the Olympus Zooms have I.S, but if you want constant aperture zooms they work well

14-35/2.0 and 35-100/2.0 are pretty amazing lenses, with small drawbacks. The 35-100/2 is mechanically noisy, a little on the heavy side (but what do you expect?) and the focus throw is super long.

Haven't used the 14-35/2 much but I would love to have both of these lenses on any shoot.

It's got the sharpness of the Panasonic 14-140 wide open @ 2, or at least it feels that way in the footage! It is a little contrasty, like the 14-140, but 5DtoRGB heals it without an issue.
 
I think someone mentioned earlier that the Olympus cameras have in-body IS, so I think their lenses do not.
Could be wrong, though.

Still, those Olympus lenses are pretty hot, although not cheap last time I checked.

But none of that will help the "hand held jello" effect of walking around a hiking trail with a DSLR.

I'm honestly a bit surprised because I was under the impression that the AF100 is supposed to be a good option for ENG style shoots. If that 14-140 OIS kit is the same as the GH2 and steps through aperture while zooming the same way, that would be a really disappointing setback.
 
M. Gilden said:
Honestly, I saw his footage there and wasn't so impressed with the IQ. Servo zoom is super cool, but not at the cost of image quality.
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As I stated when I posted that video, my focus was a little off so it's a bit soft. Also it was in a dark club with the aperture wide open and a high ISO. The lens sharpens up when stopped down a bit.

Even with those limitations the video looks good, the band loved it and that's what matters. And I just posted a clip in that thread where it's actually in focus.

M. Gilden said:
I think someone mentioned earlier that the Olympus cameras have in-body IS, so I think their lenses do not.
Could be wrong, though.
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You're right, no Olympus lenses have IS.

M. Gilden said:
I was under the impression that the AF100 is supposed to be a good option for ENG style shoots. If that 14-140 OIS kit is the same as the GH2 and steps through aperture while zooming the same way, that would be a really disappointing setback.
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It's true, 14-140 steps through aperture (with audible clicks) on the AF100. I think a LOT of people were under the impression that the AF100 would be good for ENG style shoots / event work. Turns out it's only really effectively useful for movie making where all the lighting and focus work is tightly controlled. A lot of unhappy campers are finding this out in the field. At least with the GH2, you can set it on Aperture Priority and Auto ISO and leave the aperture at one setting; AF100 doesn't offer these options.
 
M. Gilden said:
Honestly, I saw his footage there and wasn't so impressed with the IQ. Servo zoom is super cool, but not at the cost of image quality.
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...Yes, I tried watching his footage at 1080p and could see a fair bit of chromatic aberration ( orange / blue color edges ) and overall softness in the image, which is too bad as this looks like a great solution. I wonder if all B4 lens are the same, or are some lenses better than others. ( I suspect it is the 2x converter that is lowering the quality of the image, or that these lenses were just never intended for HD recording )
 
Turbodog said:
As I stated when I posted that video, my focus was a little off so it's a bit soft. Also it was in a dark club with the aperture wide open and a high ISO. The lens sharpens up when stopped down a bit.
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Right, but as I said before, its softer than my other vintage lenses wide open. And not consistent around the edges, apparently.

Even with those limitations the video looks good, the band loved it and that's what matters.
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That's what matters for the gig, but that doesn't matter at all to our technical discussion. I have clients who loved footage coming off an iPhone4. Doesn't mean we want to shoot with it. ;)

You're right, no Olympus lenses have IS.
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Darnit.


It's true, 14-140 steps through aperture (with audible clicks) on the AF100. I think a LOT of people were under the impression that the AF100 would be good for ENG style shoots / event work. Turns out it's only really effectively useful for movie making where all the lighting and focus work is tightly controlled. A lot of unhappy campers are finding this out in the field. At least with the GH2, you can set it on Aperture Priority and Auto ISO and leave the aperture at one setting; AF100 doesn't offer these options.
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Well that is just all kinds of disappointing. Interesting about the aperture priority mode, though. Does that work? I set mine to F/8 in movie mode and noticed it had to step. I'm not sure why AP would be any different, but worth a try!
 
Is a constant aperture different then just treating the zoom lens as a constant aperture and running it at its slowest of f5.6? I do this all the time shooting outdoors during the day and I don't really notice a problem. In fact without using ND filters I typically have to shoot f16 to f22 anyway since I want to keep my shutter at 50. I don't really see the problem here for outdoor shooting in the woods during the day. Now indoors or nighttime shooting is another story. This is of course shooting full manual.

Another thing to keep in mind is if the OP plans on shooting run and gun and wants to zoom while shooting then a DSLR may not be the way to go period. Without a power zoom your zooms will be a bit jerky, sticky or way to fast anyway. There are some new Panasonic power zoom lenses but I don't know much about those. Manual zooming while shooting video on a DSLR is not a great look.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Is a constant aperture different then just treating the zoom lens as a constant aperture and running it at its slowest of f5.6? I do this all the time shooting outdoors during the day and I don't really notice a problem. In fact without using ND filters I typically have to shoot f16 to f22 anyway since I want to keep my shutter at 50. I don't really see the problem here for outdoor shooting in the woods during the day. Now indoors or nighttime shooting is another story. This is of course shooting full manual.
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No, because while you zoom, the physical aperture of the lens changes (smaller as you zoom in, larger as you zoom out), and the software in the camera body has to send a signal to the lens to open up the iris a bit to keep it at the same rated F-stop. This does not happen seamlessly, as you can physically see the light adjusting in flickers as you zoom, sometimes a moment behind when it should have. If you are using the lens as a variable prime (don't change the focal point once you hit record), that's another story. I'm talking about zooming during the shoot.

Another thing to keep in mind is if the OP plans on shooting run and gun and wants to zoom while shooting then a DSLR may not be the way to go period. Without a power zoom your zooms will be a bit jerky, sticky or way to fast anyway. There are some new Panasonic power zoom lenses but I don't know much about those. Manual zooming while shooting video on a DSLR is not a great look.
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Disagree. This is not a cinema shoot. For documentaries and live events, the fast zoom and/or focus hunting that goes on afterwards is actually a look that I try to get on purpose. Makes it more authentic, a sort of "found footage" look. In a world of servo zoom consumer cameras, a throw back to the 16mm documentaries from the 70's actually looks cool.
Heck, I recall VFX shows like "Firefly" doing that in CGI to make the spaceships look like they are being recorded realistically by a camera floating in space. Which actually doesn't make any sense, but looked darned cool. Shows like "modern family" do it all the time too. In fact, I see it a lot these days now that I think about it.

When I used to shoot on a larger ENG camera, I would actually prefer using the manual zoom ring to the servo zoom in most situations, because the motorized one was too slow for the aesthetic I was after.
 
"That's what matters for the gig, but that doesn't matter at all to our technical discussion. I have clients who loved footage coming off an iPhone4. Doesn't mean we want to shoot with it. ;)"

Then here is a technical test for you comparing an SD B4 lens with an adapter similar to the one I use to an HD lens with a $5500 optical corrective adapter. You can hardly tell the difference

http://vimeo.com/29017548
 
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