Panasonic Removable Lens Four Thirds HD AVCHD Camera

SPZ said:
Things to consider:

5d Mark 2 H264 is 30Mbs, what is the G1hd avchd bit rate?

As for the DOF, no worries. I own a panasonic L1 with the bundled leica 2.8, and DOF wise its very close to bigger sensor cameras. I also bought the 1.4 summilux 25mm and DOF is equivalent to a 50 1.4 Nikkor. Also, these 2 lens are excelent lens- up to Leica standard. Anyone interested I can post a couple of stills with these two lenses...
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More about the FOV, not so much the DOF but I get what you're saying. Should be pretty interesting, yeah?

Please post stills. I've no experience with these cameras.
 
Have in mind that the RED camera has basically an APS sensor. So the G1 has a sensor only slightly smaller than a RED.

IF this camera has manual video and audio controls and there are useful lenses (are there any adapters for APS lenses???) it MIGHT be a no brainer for the price.
 
You can use 4/3rds lenses, Olympus has some good ones. However, the conversion to the micro 4/3rds mount loses the auto focus, and Olympus lenses don't have IS (the camera's sensor does).

The two biggest issues are manual, shutter priority, and aperture priority control, focus and zoom adjustment while shooting (the LX3 is locked), and the bit rate on the AVCHD (the Canon is 40Mb/s, the LX3 17, 25 would be ok, 45 would be better).

If the camera is good, good glass will follow and the stock glass is probably as most fix lens camcorders.
 
I'm a little disappointed. Imaging-Resource.com has reviewed the Canon 5D Mark II and the Panasonic G1 with their standard lenses. You can to side-by-side comparisons there. I took an section of both and extracted them below, both ISO 100. The Panasonic degrades MUCH more rapidly at higher ISOs.

Right now, the combination of contrast focus, MICRO 4/3rds mounts, and lens optical stabilization means that only the Panasonic lenses (not labeled Leica) will work well.

Panasonic will only have one lens, labeled HD, which will support auto focus in video mode...a 14-140 zoom. They will have a 20mm that is absolutely tiny...the smallest high quality video possible I believe.

While the Panasonic is probably better than any camcorder with a built-in lens, it doesn't look like it will return the dramatic results we have become accustomed to seeing with the Canon 5D Mark II. And even further from one using Zeiss primes.

1235795569.jpg
 
The little one is a test of the Olympus lens on CameraLabs.com: http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Olympus_Zuiko_Digital_12-60mm_SWD/outdoor_results.shtml.

I am rather disappointed that Panasonic didn't make a better interface to Olympus glass by supporting lens that didn't use contrast auto focus and by using a sensor rather than lens IS like Olympus. The glass limitations are going to be an issue unless someone makes a micro 4/3rds to Nikon F mount.

The big one used image comparisons at Imaging-Resource.com: http://imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM. You will have to go in, select the cameras and the image (in this case ISO100 still life). I knew the lens because that was what was used in the review. DPreview.com is better if you are changing lenses since they always test with high end prime glass. However, they often test with lenses much better than you will use. And in this case, the quality of the Panasonic glass is the main issue.

There are adapters for the regular 4/3rds to just about anything. In an Olympus body, the image stabilization on the sensor lets any telephoto benefit. While there will undoubtedly be sensors to APC-S and 35mm lenses in the future; however the 4/3rds 2x cropping will limit them to standard and telephone lengths.

My guess is that their are minimal sensor and electronics issues. We don't know if Panasonic will use a consumer 17Mb/s, HMC150 25Mb/s, or push the envelope as Canon did with a 40Mb/s or so AVCHD bandwidth.
 
Good News:

1) Manual shutter and aperture

2) 2 lenses...standard 14-200 (28-400), optional 7-14 (14-28)

3) Mic input

4) 1080p24 and 720p60 modes

Bad News:

Records at 17Mb/s, MUCH lower than the Canon 5DM2/SX1 40-45Mb/s That is LESS than half the picture information is recorded.

Unanswered questions:

1) Can the gain be manually controlled also? If not the lighting will change during the video.

2) Can the HDMI output capture the video live and uncompressed. The Canon's don't. However, the much smaller data stream makes this a problem here.

Links:

Camera: http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/popup/pressrelease/gh1.html#1

WA-Tele Zoom: http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/popup/pressrelease/gh1.html#2

Super WA-WA Zoom: http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/popup/pressrelease/gh1.html#3

gh1k_slant.jpg
 
DavidNJ said:
Records at 17Mb/s, MUCH lower than the Canon 5DM2/SX1 40-45Mb/s That is LESS than half the picture information is recorded.

Unanswered questions:

1) Can the gain be manually controlled also? If not the lighting will change during the video. [/IMG]
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Ups. I was looking for that. Look meager those 17Mb/s...

I doubt you can control the gain manually, they would have emphasized that. But I'm sure ISO won't change while recording. They really tried to design a serious camcorder - at least in it's class.

personally a bit disappointed that there are only lenses that don't open up much, only to f/4 or f/5.8. That's bad news for DOF and low light. Maybe the adapter for other lenses will resolve that.



But I wonder if the PAL and NTSC capability will be in the same model??? That would be really great! :)
 
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ok, here's what I want. HPX170 body, AVC-Intra recording to P2, Four Thirds size sensor and lens mount on front. that would be the ultimate compact camera. if you look at these sensor sizes, Four Thirds is just slightly larger than 2/3 B4. maybe they've been planning this all along? Jan?!

you could use all of these lenses:
http://www.four-thirds.org/en/products/lense.html

SensorSizes.svg


formats.jpg
 
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dbwolfe said:
if you look at these sensor sizes, Four Thirds is just slightly larger than 2/3 B4.
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It's actually way, way larger than 2/3. It's about 3x larger than 2/3, and about halfway between Super16 and the Red One's 35mm-sized sensor. Actually, it's probably about the same size as the 3K mode on a Red One. Haven't bothered to run the math but I bet that's about where it'll end up.
 
even better. and that sensor size with just 1920x1080 pixels as opposed to 12MP would mean great low light capabilities. c'mon panasonic, do it!
 
dbwolfe said:
if you look at these sensor sizes, Four Thirds is just slightly larger than 2/3 B4.
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Have a closer look on the charts you were posting yourself. Four Thirds is VERY close to the Arri Standard 35mm format.

Said that I second your opinion that now a new breakthrough-camera is possible as it once was the DVX.

They are certainly prepared to counter the Scarlet.
 
Barry_Green said:
It's actually way, way larger than 2/3. It's about 3x larger than 2/3, and about halfway between Super16 and the Red One's 35mm-sized sensor. Actually, it's probably about the same size as the 3K mode on a Red One. Haven't bothered to run the math but I bet that's about where it'll end up.
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Thanks Barry some questions

1. Will the DOF for this camera be shallower than the HPX500?
2. Will the low light performance be better than the HMC150?
3. Will the price be lower than the Canon 5D Mark II?
4. Will the AVC format be the same exact one that is supported by the NLE systems?
5. Will the 1080p24 be actually 24 frames or 23.976?
6. Will the dynamic range be better or equal to HPX500?
7. Can an uncompressed signal be pulled from a hdmi out?

Please answer the best you can. So far I am very impressed by this panasonic move. The datarate should at least best hdv. And I like hdv. :)
 
1. yes.
2. unknown, but going by sensor size alone, probably
3. unknown, but rumors suggest as much
4. avc-hd.. yes. doubtful that panny would make some proprietary version of avc-hd specifically for this camera that is not compatible with all their other avc-hd cams.
5. don't know
6. don't know.
7. don't know

The data rate is 17mbps, I believe, which, while a lower data rate than hdv, should be of better quality compression b/c we are looking at mpg4 vs. mpg2 compression.

later,
Jason
 
dbwolfe said:
ok, here's what I want. HPX170 body, AVC-Intra recording to P2, Four Thirds size sensor and lens mount on front. that would be the ultimate compact camera.
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I third the motion. I've wanted a camera of that size with at least a 2/3" sensor since the VX2000.

Except not to P2 but to CompactFlash.
And maybe not even AVC-Intra but uncompressed, to CFast.
And not rolling shutter CMOS but global shutter CMOS or CCD.
 
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