Cinema EOS Announcement on 19th Jan - EOS R5C

[ahalpert]

isn’t that market correction?



is shrinking market percentage really all that scary? as others grow in subscriptions, even if Netflix still grows, it still becomes considered a lower percentage just by the nature of others growing from nothing to something?

just curious why those to circumstancial numbers mean disaster. Perhaps we should start a seperate thread?

I'm copying Market analysis from the articles I read. They claimed it wasn't just market correction. The decline in new subscribers is true in absolute terms. There is also a natural limit to how many people are alive to subscribe. But wall street demands profit growth, so now the plan is to raise prices

It's an open question if the proliferation of successful streamers takes away from Netflix's bottom line.. iMO it's a zero sum game.. subscribe to all of them and you're paying more than a cable fee. Plus you can't watch all at once. I think most people have a limit to how much they're willing to pay for streamers. Hbo's gain is netflix's loss

 

[Guest]

Ok.

We may have gone far out on a tangent here.



Regardless, doesn’t really matter, the R5C looks like it will do well.

The idea of reliable internal raw 8K for less than $6K to kit up, has me considering this camera. No other reason.

8K is a wonderful resolution. It is appreciably better than 4K if you enjoy high resolution images.


People like to downplay the need for anything over HD, and there is wisdom in that, yet we all know how the stills world went:


HD is 2MP

4K is 8MP

8K is 33MP

i just can’t imagine someone working with 33MP footage and being able to go back to 8megapixels.

 

[DLD]

The Netflix drop is both the correction and the limits of the subscriber growth (and where's that "Irony of Fate" remake?) ... but, within 2-3 years, you should see a few dropouts a la Quibi. And then Netflix will pop back up.

As to camera pricing, Canon's been pretty steady on the 2X in the past, so a $9,000 C-90 seems like a possibility.

Side note: IMO, R5C's IQ is superb and its iterations will begin making inroads into the high end production sooner rather than later and not just like a crash cam/B/C cam,.

 

[NorBro]

DLD's starting preproduction on his new film which will be capured on the R5 C.

Russia: The country that never knew me.

Set for a 2027 release after the festival circuit.

 

[Guest]

Side note: IMO, R5C's IQ is superb and its iterations will begin making inroads into the high end production sooner rather than later and not just like a crash cam/B/C cam,.

Perhaps in the way that the 5D and Cx00 cameras did, aka not much.


although the R5C is likely to have better IQ than the C200. Canon’s stills division has a magic touch to their colour science that the video department never quite touched. C500ii is easily their best to date, and that still doesn’t catch up to their dslr’s and mirrorless cameras.

What would hold the R5C back, in my opinion:

Dynamic Range


This even holds Blackmagic and Red behind the Venice and Alexa.



But will certainly see a few good films done with the R5C, you’re right about that.

 

[Ben_Ericson]

Side note: IMO, R5C's IQ is superb and its iterations will begin making inroads into the high end production sooner rather than later and not just like a crash cam/B/C cam,.

I just don't see it. That snow plow video is nice and sharp, lowlight is great, but feels like video. It all still looks like Canon DSLR to me. Amazingly versatile camera.

 

[NorBro]

Yeah, I used to say the same thing after every release (and you're right, btw), but I gave up after the last few releases from everyone because Japanese cameras, IMO, just aren't capable of Hollywood-looking images (besides the Venice).

I desperately would love a camera that can effortlessly look like this even in a simple lens test:

 

[Guest]

DR

DR

DR

DR


Dynamic range below 14stops usable is the reason cameras with good colour science like Black magic and Canon just don’t beat Arri in the real world. in controlled testing with soft lighting, i’ve seen Arri lose in the occasional blind testing, but once you start trying to react to the real world or light by eye, there really is only the Arri Alexa. Wasn’t till the Venice approached the 14-15stops usable DR did Sony gain true acceptance in the high end digital cinema world.

R5C does not have enough DR in video mode to trick the eye.

 

[ahalpert]

i just can’t imagine someone working with 33MP footage and being able to go back to 8megapixels.

Largely about cropping, I think. Look at what their publishing resolution is. They'll say it - with 20MP or less they have to be more "careful"

 

[ahalpert]

DR

DR

DR

DR


Dynamic range below 14stops usable is the reason cameras with good colour science like Black magic and Canon just don’t beat Arri in the real world. in controlled testing with soft lighting, i’ve seen Arri lose in the occasional blind testing, but once you start trying to react to the real world or light by eye, there really is only the Arri Alexa. Wasn’t till the Venice approached the 14-15stops usable DR did Sony gain true acceptance in the high end digital cinema world.

R5C does not have enough DR in video mode to trick the eye.

Canonrumors is reiterating their year-old rumors that 3 new canon cine cameras are coming out this year: s35 8k, ff 8k, and ff 4k with WDR. The 4K camera will have at least 3 stops more DR than the others

Maybe the s35 8k camera will be <$10k like norbro wants. I'd be shocked if the others were

 

[ahalpert]

The Netflix drop is both the correction and the limits of the subscriber growth (and where's that "Irony of Fate" remake?) ... but, within 2-3 years, you should see a few dropouts a la Quibi. And then Netflix will pop back up.
,.

Perhaps, but the streamers bringing up the rear barely have any market share at all. Not much to gain from their deaths. Some of them are kind of just add-ons to broadcasters anyway, which probably gives them more staying power and a lower bar for profitability

 

[cyvideo]

Having no power left from the camera to work an automatic lens in 8K/60p RAW is the craziest thing I've ever heard.

The whole point of my interest in the camera is because I want it to be beyond superior and future proof and that is not it.

That's why it's $4400 or cheaper than predicted. And no IBIS and probably other little things we don't know about yet.

___

And his C-Log2 reasoning for that room is the opposite of what C-Log2 is good for...definitely not dark interior shots. It's for bright exteriors!

Regarding the power options. This BH video on the R5C covers all the in and outs of the R5C's power requirements if you want to use EF and RF lenses that have EIS and that require power for focusing and aperture control. The higher frame rates and higher resolutions do considerably hamper this camera if you want to use those lens features in a fluid mobile workflow. The one approved Power Bank from Anker is massive, wider than the camera. Sort of negates the appeal of the lightweight body. Even the new Canon LPE6NH battery at the lower record settings is only giving you around 40-50 minutes according to various reports. The E6 is around 20 minutes. So if run times longer than these are required even in the lower resolutions and frame rates it looks like we are back to spaghetti junction with external cables and battery rigging. A shame as the unrestricted run times are now hampered by power issues. A fully manual lens obviously isn't a problem. No IBIS stabilization only digital? If I was in the market for this type of video capacity I think the Sony A1 would be a much more practical everyday camera. Just pick it up and hit record 8K on board without having to rig up external high capacity power supplies to feed the lens mount. The power solutions offered start at around 11.50 in the following video.

Chris Young

 

[NorBro]

Handicapping the 8K/60p and dumbing down the IS to digital IS which will probably work okay but not as good as IBIS (kind of like Sony's IBIS, okay but not too good) sounds exactly like it should be in terms of the Japanese making both cameras, R5 C and A1, on the same level and not too much better than one another.

Although the R5 C still has the upper hand of course even if only for the price. Price and hype.

I knew, unfortunately, that I mentally would not be able to get passed the 8K/60p issue and buy the camera even though I preordered it for a second to do more research.

 

[ahalpert]

Handicapping the 8K/60p and dumbing down the IS to digital IS which will probably work okay but not as good as IBIS (kind of like Sony's IBIS, okay but not too good)

Sony ibis is way better than nothing. And it has eis in addition. When used in conjunction; they're about as good as panny IBIS. Clean win for sony on the IBIS front here. Although r5 IBIS better than Sony ibis

 

[NorBro]

Depends on who you ask, but it's moot because it's indeed better than nothing.

 

[ahalpert]

The more I think about it, the more this seems squarely like a komodo and pocket killer. No ibis, and however you feel about that for video, it probably won't go down well with the photo crowd, who may not need this much video firepower anyway. So, not the ideal hybrid from a photo-first viewpoint

Then the power situation means its not as easy and tidy as one might want for a little mirrorless to throw in your backpack and guerilla on the subway

But if you want to shoot high res raw for narrative,, commercial,, music video, you might be willing to handle the power situation. Great AF, full frame, higher res, better low light than komodo and pocket which don't have ibis anyway. Much better slow mo situation. Price competitive

 

[NorBro]

Back-in-the-day on the BMCuser forum, years 2012-2016, we were all so excited for NAB because they announced a new camera at NAB every year since they started making cameras, but then they stopped doing that.

Maybe in 2-3 months they'll have something new.

 

[DLD]

I just don't see it. That snow plow video is nice and sharp, lowlight is great, but feels like video. It all still looks like Canon DSLR to me. Amazingly versatile camera.

Anything Raw is malleable enough to look real good. Besides, there's a ton of reality/interview/in-studio content that has no aspirations to be "Lawrence of Arabia" and is perfectly suited for this.

BTW, while I don't watch much prime time TV, I do occasionally flip through the reruns when an NFL game is post-PAT. And there are a lot of 1-hr dramas out there that are probably shot on Alexa but may as well be shot on 5D MKII.

More BTW, last night an FB friend posts a film recommendation, a 2015 Frenchie "Un moment d'égarement" (came out in English as "One Wild Moment"). I looked for it online and found it in HD. It looks like a typical French comedy-romance-drama-nudity-on-a-budget flick. It would have been just fine with R5C.

 

[ahalpert]

Anything Raw is malleable enough to look real good. Besides, there's a ton of reality/interview/in-studio content that has no aspirations to be "Lawrence of Arabia" and is perfectly suited for this.

C.

"Because the R5C has such good image quality, it will dominate the industry. Especially the segments of the industry that don't require great image quality, where it will be right at home since its image quality isn't that good"

 

[DLD]

"Because the R5C has such good image quality, it will dominate the industry. Especially the segments of the industry that don't require great image quality, where it will be right at home since its image quality isn't that good"

Uh, no. There's a large divide between R5C and Alexa 65 but it's smaller than the divide between FS-7 and Alexa 65. The higher the image quality, the more uses in the pro world a camera will have. The same goes for the various features such as AF. And R5C ticks a lot of boxes. Including its $4,500 price.

And, besides that, not everyone needs Alexa 65 anyway. Like people who shoot for Sotheby's.

Side note : yesterday, I came upon a professional color grader who worked on some footage sent to him by the Potato Jet (aka Gene). Lo and behold, color grading is also a skill. The cameras are good enough.