CineForm

I don't know whats the case but the new version makes everything more stable, also a little bit faster. Good work.

Andreas
 
Yes with every version we are improving things -- small improvements are typically no listed is the update list but you benefit anyway.
 
I've been reading this thread for a while and am very impressed with David's communication to current/potential clients and his dedication to Cineform's developement. I'm currenly an Avid user considering switching to another platform for several reasons, one being the HVX and I'm considering a Cineform solution. For all the good I can see from Cineform's support of the HVX my main question is the ability (if it exists - as it does in my Avid) to support double system audio. For example, in the Avid, for camera's that don't have SMPTE timecode inputs, one can feed LTC timecode to an audio track on the camera, sample the footage into the Avid, have it read the audio track with the LTC timecode on it and then have that become the source timecode for the clip instead. It's a GREAT solution for syncing other sources together on a set. After looking I see that FCP does not offer such a function, but I'm not sure about Premeire/Cineform. Is/would this be possible?
 
David Newman said:
Prospect HD Edit also adds 10-bit compression, 1920x1080 full raster coding, and 32-bit float color processing for advances color corrections, and compositing.
Click to expand...

32-bit float colour processing? Is that within After Effects, or within Premier 2.0?

Thanks.
 
John,

This is a new request. Sorry I can't say that we support that today, I have no idea if Premiere Pro can support that feature. Anyone else please jump in if you have answer for extracting timeline from digitalized LTC track. If there enough demand for that feature it could be added. I can see it would be handy.
 
peter orland said:
32-bit float colour processing? Is that within After Effects, or within Premier 2.0?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Soon both. Prospect HD currently (verision 2.1.6) has 32-bit float support with Premiere Pro 2.0, allowing you to do HDR work and secondary color correction on the PPro timeline. The AE I/O module is 16-bit integer, we will add 32-bit float soon. All of this is in preparing for CineForm RAW flexibility which can really use float processing, but everything else is benefitting.
 
Well, being able to pull timecode from an audio track that has LTC on it certainly has my vote. It's a fantastic way to nail sync with any camera, piece of audio grear, etc even if they traditionally don't support timecode in/out.

Thanks,
John
 
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Hi there again, i havnt posted in a while

I have used the demo version of Aspect HD for using with combustion and vegas , making a documentary. I am very impressed with how quick my workflow is with it.

The sad thing is , the demo has ended :'(

The only thing about it was, and mabe why i wouldnt purchase, is that i couldnt do much with it. I could convert MXF to AVI etc as with raylight. But that was it. Also i didnt like having to browse for my files every time, wanted to have a folder that i could put stuff in and it would be converted. Also i wasnt sure about the audio conversion, i think it differs from raylight.

All and all nice programe. May but but after paying for raylight im not sure. But saving combusted HD to cineform codec is realy nice. low ile sizes for the win.

And i couldnt figure out how to get my PAL hvx to work with direct record, always said there was no camera connected :(

il check the website now.

Thx, i highly recomend this solution, and seems to be very solid, even if the interface is a bit fiddly and i cant understand anything on the console that pops up with errors etc.

chow
 
Digital Angel,

Drag and drop conversion or a conversion folder may be a nice addition. The audio is uncomressed 16-bit stereo PCM, so no issue there. We don't support the Firewire connection to the camera, the message you were seeing is for HDV carmeras, which only work via Firewire. So you the capture tab is used for HDV and the convert tab is used for disk based P2 or HDV media.

If you use Aspect HD with Premiere Pro you will find is has added many presets for HD acceleration -- multi-stream real-time HD editing. If you are intending to only work with Vegas and/or Combustion, all you need is Connect HD (which is $300 cheaper.) Aspect HD is primary for Premiere Pro, but is a super set of Connect HD (i.e. with Aspect HD you get Connect HD -- which is the only part you tested.)

P.S. You can get a 15-day trail on Connect HD to see which one you want. :)
 
Its amazing that everything seems to lead to CineForm ! I am curently trying to see the benefits that I could get from buying Sony FX1 comparable to DVX100b and HVX200, only to find out that CineForm has all the critical anwsers ready for me in their website ! So the one thing in common those three cameras have is that they doing 24p the same way (hvx when on 1080i 24p over 60i, FX1 CineFrame 24p over 60i, dvx100b 24p over 60i), is that correct ? And its better to downscale to 1280X720 working in post ? Am I right David ? I uderstand that with Sony this not exactly the case, but for someone that doesnt afford Prospect or real expensive hardware the downscale is also valid solution. FX1+AspectHd seems to me all of the sudden very tempting. I only care about the best image possible with less noise, and I found when cameras manipulate the image to be quite annoying. I think that FX1 has the most nutral look and thats perfect. I only miss the VFR if I don't go with HVX. Actually the best camera for my needs would be Silicon Imaging SI-1920HDVR Camera, I really LOVE what you do with RAW aqusation, with any changes to actual image on metadata etc.
 
Premiere Pro has truly raised the HD Bar. The thread info and website info is definitely looking good. Interesting request from Alton. From a Producer's POV I agree that CineForm should seriously consider supporting LTC time code if they haven't already. I love the work produced on the smaller HD cameras, but their manufacturers don't seem to think they need TC in/out. LTC time code is a good workaround. But, to have a way to bring in your audio without the headache and have the realtime HD capabilities for your video would be over the top! (Not to mention that the added convenience could translate to money saved in post sessions.) I'm surprised to hear that most beta testers and editors haven't asked for this feature before.
 
Andreas said:
Its amazing that everything seems to lead to CineForm ! I am curently trying to see the benefits that I could get from buying Sony FX1 comparable to DVX100b and HVX200, only to find out that CineForm has all the critical anwsers ready for me in their website ! So the one thing in common those three cameras have is that they doing 24p the same way (hvx when on 1080i 24p over 60i, FX1 CineFrame 24p over 60i, dvx100b 24p over 60i), is that correct ? And its better to downscale to 1280X720 working in post ? Am I right David ? I uderstand that with Sony this not exactly the case, but for someone that doesnt afford Prospect or real expensive hardware the downscale is also valid solution. FX1+AspectHd seems to me all of the sudden very tempting. I only care about the best image possible with less noise, and I found when cameras manipulate the image to be quite annoying. I think that FX1 has the most nutral look and thats perfect. I only miss the VFR if I don't go with HVX. Actually the best camera for my needs would be Silicon Imaging SI-1920HDVR Camera, I really LOVE what you do with RAW aqusation, with any changes to actual image on metadata etc.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the complements. The one area we try to really know is low cost HD post-production.

As for "hvx when on 1080i 24p over 60i, FX1 CineFrame 24p over 60i, dvx100b 24p over 60i" technically the Panasonic cameras do shoot 24 and store the data as 60i, whereas the Sony is still shooting 60i and through field duplication puts 24p-like over 60i. This is the issue for the FX1. The Z1 however has a 25p mode that is quite usable. Here is the page we put together on this subject http://www.cineform.com/products/SonyHDVSupport/CineFrame.htm. The Sony cameras are very clean. For Sony Cineframe modes or HXV 1080p modes -- yes I think downscaling to 1280x720 only helps the image -- even lowering noise.

Yes the Silicon Image camera with CineForm RAW is incredibly flexible, even more so than we have previously demonstrated and more than what is happening over at indiefilmlive.blogspot.com (you have to read that.) We have been upgrading the compression for higher quality, performance and soon data rate (more than we are every shown), and the new high dynamic range manipulation is blast (that I demo'd at the LA Film Festival) and I haven't even shown that to SI yet. Lots of fun.
 
jfben said:
Premiere Pro has truly raised the HD Bar. The thread info and website info is definitely looking good. Interesting request from Alton. From a Producer's POV I agree that CineForm should seriously consider supporting LTC time code if they haven't already. I love the work produced on the smaller HD cameras, but their manufacturers don't seem to think they need TC in/out. LTC time code is a good workaround. But, to have a way to bring in your audio without the headache and have the realtime HD capabilities for your video would be over the top! (Not to mention that the added convenience could translate to money saved in post sessions.) I'm surprised to hear that most beta testers and editors haven't asked for this feature before.
Click to expand...

Point noted. I will put it in to our feature request database.
 
Confused once again (something that keeps happening from day one I joyned this forums :) )

I quote from http://www.adamwilt.com/HDV/cineframe.html

"CineFrame24 is fine as a special effect if you're staying on video at 60i, but it's not suitable for a true 24fps feel, nor will it work for film-outs"

Is this a fact, and what about CineFrame 25 ? According to CineForm there is no motion stutter and with 1/50 shutter speed the cine like effect is perfectly produced. Is CineForm suggesting FX1 CF25 for possible film out/ true 24fps feel after the CineForm intermediate conversion/downscale ?


Yes, I am aware of indiefilmlive.blogspot.com I am a frequent visitor !


Andreas
 
The frame interval is Cineframe 24 is 1/30th, 1/20th, 1/30th, 1/20th of a second, averaging to 1/24th or 24p. It can be used, however anyting with a lot of motion can be odd (more so than normal 24p -- which is not the best for motion anyway.) We do extract the 24 from 60i so it is easier to work with -- and many FX1 editors love it with Aspect HD -- yet the frame acquistion cadience can't be changed. Cineframe 25 is a standard 1/25th, 1/25th etc cadience. You can do everything as 25p and convert to 24p as needed, or convert to 24p during capture into your PC. Shooting 25 and posting and 24 or 25 is a completely normal workflow -- many European features are shoot at 25 and presented at 24 -- you can't tell.
 
Yes the Silicon Imaging camera runs on CineForm RAW compression technology. Although we don't sell that camera. I'm sure the Silicon Imaging guys we get to your questions (which you might need to clarify more as I'm not sure what you are asking --- yes the new Merom CPU will be cool.) If you are not getting responses here you could ask them on the Silicon Imaging forum (on their site.)
 
David Newman said:
For those looking at an AJA Xena card for output and monitoring and/or upgrading Aspect HD to Prospect HD please check out our new aggressive pricing on these products. http://www.cineform.com/products/ProspectHD.htm
Click to expand...


That price is getting close, but still not low enough for me to jump in.
All the resolution is nice, I almost bought Aspect HD, untill I realized that Prospect HD was really what I thought Aspect HD was.

The price is just too much for me.
I can't see many paying for Prospect HD being that it is only a codec, and it's more than the editing software you also need.

Bring the price down more. I want it, but don't NEED it.
 
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