CineForm

David, that must be it. I didn't capture the clip I'm using; I downloaded it here- titled "House720.mxf" from this site: http://hvx200.moctel.com/Users/cre8tive/Sundance HVX MXF files/
So the person who captured these clips may have shot 720P24 and then converted it to 60P (59.94fps), thus the duplicate frames.
VirtualDub tells me the clip is 59.94fps, 868 frames long with 434 keyframes. It mentions "delta" frames, which I assume are the duplicates.
Does anyone want to confirm this by downloading the above file?
However, it's also telling me that some of my 24PA clips from my DVX100A are 29.97fps (with no "delta" frames). I don't know, maybe there's a setting somewhere I didn't check, but I know it's wrong about the frame rate.


The weird thing is, when I play the House720 clip in Premiere, it looks smooth. I put an SD clip over the first half of the HD clip in the timeline to compare the smoothness of playback, and they both play smoothly together- until I render it. The rendered portion of the HD clip is now choppy while the SD clip over it is smooth. And as soon as it finishes playing the rendered portion and continues onto the "naked" HD clip, it's smooth again!
What is going on?

EDIT: I tried exporting this section as an HD WMV file, and the entire length of House720 looks choppy. The SD portion remains smooth.
 
I actually know somewhat what is happening. But the point is you are running the wrong mode for that timeline, and it isn't going to be pretty. For the non-rendered segment the Aspect HD real-time engine is doing it best -- and present a smooth image then Premire is rendering. For 24p on a 24p timeline all will be perfect.
 
Do you think the House720 clip was originally 30p and then exported at 60p? When played in Premiere by itself it doesn't look choppy though, as clips with half their intended frame rate will do. Is there something I'm doing wrong in the conversion process? I don't understand why it would look smooth when played, but choppy when exported.
If the clip had been originally recored in the 720P60 mode, then would you recommend performing a Rate Change with HDLink- from 60p to 24p? It seems it won't let me do this. I click the "60p to 24p" option and click OK, but if I click Prefs again, the Rate Change is what it was before changing it to "60p to 24p." All the other options remain when clicking OK and then Prefs again. SO, not being able to use the "60p to 24p" option, I chose "60p to 30p" and opened a 30p project (a CineForm preset). Now the playback is choppy and frame advacing updates every 2nd and then every 3rd frame. I tried importing this clip into the 24p project, and it plays smooth and updates every other frame!
I'm boggled.
Does anyone have any other virgin MXF files I can try? Or confirm the original recording state of the files on this site: http://hvx200.moctel.com/Users/cre8tive/Sundance HVX MXF files/
Thank you!
 
Try "pizza720" wich works smoothly. House720 it is probably corupted. I used HDlink with "pizza720" and convert it with no rate change to 1280x720 and works fine. And yes, I also thought it was native 24p. But it is 60p as you alwready know.

best
Andreas
 
C.S.,

The House720 file was recorded with the duplicated frames embedded. The operations for 60p to 24p are rate control only, they do not extract frames -- so 60p to 24p will make a 2.5X slow motion if you source was 60p (with unique frames.) This sequence is more like Varicam 24p where redundant frames are not removed, it is 720p24 embedded in 60p (so you where seeing 3-2 pulldown frame duplication.) Aspect HD 4.1.3 will include a "Remove duplicate frame" filter like Prospect HD does in its latest build. Here is the House720 footage as an CineForm AVI extracted to 24p, up-rez'd to 1280x720 : http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=C47A791B6CD50047 (see, nothing wrong with that.) The file is encoded with higher quality than the DVCPRO-HD source, yet the filesize is smaller because the redundant frames aren't compressed.
 
Yes, C.S. there was a bug, the last item in the rate change pull down wouldn't "stick", now fixed. Thanks, good find.
 
Andreas said:
May I ask why someone would export a 24p clip to 60p , if thats the case with House720 ?

Andreas
Click to expand...


I am thinking this clip is 24P over 60 which is the way a Varicam works and also the way the DVX100 worked in DV. The clip is actually 60fps with 24 unique frames embedded in that stream. I think it originated this way from the camera. I don't think it was converted from 24P to 60P after the fact but I could be wrong.
 
I agree with icile22. The camera can shot either 720p24 and 720pn24, but the first uses 2.5X the P2 space as it puts 24p over 60. There is good reason that I'm aware of to shoot in that way -- the pn modes make more sense. That said, the never release of Aspect HD will support both.
 
I thought that when not in native mode it delivers 24p over 60i and not 60p, like 1080, that's why I was confused. My mistake.

Andreas
 
So Connect HD is all I need to make my P2 files into avi files that I can use vegas to edit with?

Is it faster than DVfilms Raylight?

Thanks.
 
Josh,

Yes Connect HD will get using P2 sourced media with Vegas.

Re: Is it faster than DVfilms Raylight?

For editing, YES! For initial conversion RayLight has the speed edge. You should try them both to determine which workflow you like better.
 
Another question for David.

Wich format is best for importing a still image in Premiere Pro 2 (as a bakround for green screen) jpg, tiff, png ?

Is it better to resize the image first, making a 1280X720 square pixel still and then import it ?

Does my question have anything to do with AspectHD or the boost that it gives has to do only with the CineForm avis ?

Thanks
Andreas
 
Like like PNGs, but either TIFF or PNG is better than JPEG. Resizing before is best (as you can choose a better scaler) although not necessary.
 
David -

If I shoot HVX200 material in the 1080/60i,30p,24p modes...is Aspect HD capable of working with the material in 1920x1080 or will it only be 1280x720?

From reading the specs of your website regarding this, I'm a bit confused as it seems that only Prospect HD is capable of doing the 1920x1080 resolution.

Could you clarify please? Most appreciate it.

AC
 
Yes, Prospect HD is licensed to work with material up to 1920x1080, so HVX 1080 matterial at it resolution of 1280x1080 (1.5:1 pixel ratio) can be scaled up to square pixels at 1920x1080. Aspect HD is also perfectly capable of 1080 work. You can work in 1.5:1 pixel ratio with 1280x1080 directly, or scale to 1440x1080 (which helps when mixing with HDV projects, plus there is wider NLE support for 1.33:1 than 1.5:1.) Aspect HD supports export at 1920x1080 to other formats, yet it only supports a 1440x1080 maximum timeline -- hardly a limitation for the HVX which is lower res. than that. The reason to go with Prospect HD is more related to HD-SDI I/O (which prefers 1920x1080) and 10-bit processing.
 
Last edited:
Can Scanner said:
Any insight regarding the inability to select the "60p to 24p" option?
Click to expand...

CineForm Aspect HD 4.1.3 is now available for free upgrade to 4.x users and for 15-day trail. This fixes the duplicate frame extract from 720p mode as well as 720pn modes. Now all the camera's DVCPRO/HD shooting modes are supported.

Also fixed is the 60p to 24p rate conversion bug -- as found by Can Scanner in this thread.

Read more details here : http://www.cineform.com/products/AspectHDPPro.htm
 
What's the visual difference in quality between Aspect HD vs. Prospect HD?

Is Aspect HD geared more for a cuts only type projects rather than doing keying, color correcting, effects, etc...which I take it Prospect HD is geared for?

AC
 
Aspect HD is geared for industrial, event work and filmmakers on a tight budget, it works work with ALL sub-$10k HD cameras. Prospect HD Edit adds HD-SDI output and monitoring so it is ideal for broadcasters and filmmakers needing to do D5 or HDCAM masters. Prospect HD Edit also adds 10-bit compression, 1920x1080 full raster coding, and 32-bit float color processing for advances color corrections, and compositing. Next is Prospect HD Ingest with is everything PHD-Edit is with real-time HD-SDI or analog HD capture, great for greenscreen work from HVX200, HD100 or XL-H1, and of course Cinealta or Viper. Also Prospect HD Ingest is an onlining solution (like is was used on Dust to Glory -- Avid offline, Prospect HD PPro online.)

AC : What's the visual difference in quality between Aspect HD vs. Prospect HD?

Visually the difference is between 8-bit and 10-bit, which can be huge.
 
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