Other: CineAlta Full Frame 36x24mm Camera event on September 6th
- Thread starter Bern Caughey
- Start date
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Yep the blokes in the factory need to be masters.. there is a limit to what we need to know about sensors.. it is not like we are going to be knocking up a new sensor in the shed at the weekend.
I think there is zero chance it will be any kind of E mount. Unless this was going to be a lower end camera. But if it's a Cinealta camera then it won't be low end. Besides they already have the FS5 and FS7 in that niche which are still quite recent. So I doubt they will be releasing another low end camera. I think this is a F65 replacement. If so then it will be PL. Hopefully a solid PL mount. As good as FZ is a solid PL is still preferable. Especially in a high end camera where nobody will ever use an adapter.
An A9 sensor in a pro body would mean a low end camera in the FS5 and FS7 niche. As this is a Cinealta I think it will be a F65 replacement, as the F55 is still going strong and being updated. So I doubt they would put a DSLR sensor in a high end camera which will most likely be targeted at the Alexa and Varicam Pure. Who would want to pay high money for that if they did?
Definitely not a low end camera.. thats very obvious .. Sony claim its not a replacement f65.. but they would say that I suppose..
But the f55 is using an adaptor .. and is used on high end productions.. the Varicam LT had its PL mount module .. and is even EF mount !.. for sure not the ordinary E mount.. but I just wonder with the new PL E mount.. these are rock solid..just locks the wrong way.. if the chassis is strong enough which Im sure it will be.. if Sony will go for some sort of agnostic mount.. or at least service center changeable .same as aspect ratio agnostic.. this is definitely the future for camera design.. I mean the FZ is only on two cameras in the whole world..f5/55.. in production anyway..
The question is why would Sony go with a consumer lens mount? What's the incentive for them? If the camera is a high end camera everybody will shoot with Master Primes and Cookes. How much sense does a DSLR mount make then? It will be PL for sure. Maybe FZ to PL. But PL for sure. My bet is a solid PL like the F35, F65 and Alexa. There is a reason they have solid mounts and not adapters.
About the F55 being high end, I don't see it as such. In my opinion FS7 is low end, F55 is mid and F65 is high end. EV1 is low end, Varicam LT mid and Varicam Pure is high end. Any camera is used in high end production these days. If a hot shot director would decide to shoot a Hollywood feature on a FS7 or even a DSLR I don't think this would make the cameras high end.
Yes your probably right..I also presumed PL.. I just wonder if they have something up their sleeve ..why didnt they announce it in the first place.. they must have decided by now... who would have thought a FF camera in the first place .. its the first high end one.. I think its all going this "agnostic" path..
Regardless if you liked it or not..Vinyl was about $1m an episode . the Crown. etc. alot of high end TV shot on F55.. for netflix anyway with their 4K rule.. bigger budgets than alot of features .. no one worried about the PL adaptor.. actually I dont think many people in production even know its an adaptor ..
Grug
Veteran
It'll be an FZ mount (or equivalent interchangable mount) guaranteed. It needs to be adaptable for the all of the various S35mm, anamorphic and large-sensor lenses people will be using with it. That means regular PL-mount, regular PV mount, and the new Arri XPL and Panavision 70 mounts.
In that regard, I can see it. Although with or without a FZ mount Panavision will still Panavise it as they do with any camera. Plus I don't really see Sony having an interest in supporting the competition's mounts with a PV mount or Arri XPL mount out of the gate. At least not the Sony we know. But like I said, it's Sony so we never know what they are thinking now.
By the way, I know PL is Arri's mount. But at this point it is universal. While the XPL is only on a camera which this new Sony FF will most likely compete with. Ditto for the Panavision DXL mount.
September 6th is close enough and we will know for sure.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
To me, a FF CineAlta sounds like an Alexa65 competitor, so, super-high-end. And yes, I believe the a9 sensor is good enough for such a camera: it has the resolution, the dynamic range and everything else it needs to compete in that market... except for 16-bit ADCs, which are probably the reason Sony is claiming it's a completely new sensor. It would probably need insane cooling to achieve >24fps.
I'm not going to argue about a DSLR sensor being good enough to compete with an Alexa65 or not because the argument doesn't make any sense to me.
But this is a moot point. It just wouldn't be good for business or marketing if Sony's flagship ultra high end cinema camera had the same sensor as a $4k low end photo camera. Wouldn't you agree?
That's why I highly doubt it will be the A9 sensor.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
MOst raw DSLR still images are fantastic even from little cheap cams... how you get those images at 120+FPS of course is a different matter..
starcentral
Veteran
A wild theory is that Sony will introduce some sort of an auto focus into the pro line - A9/A99 has a very good one - and release some sort of cine version of their G-Master full frame lenses. My reasoning is that Sony tends to get into these proprietary mood swings and some Zeiss products already do AF with their stills cameras.
As to the "consumer" level sensors - the A6300/6500 and the A99 sensors actually outperform the six year old Cine Alta predecessors. The difference comes down to the signal processing, cooling/heat dissipation, the recording bit rate, feature set ... and, naturally, profit margins.
As to the "consumer" level sensors - the A6300/6500 and the A99 sensors actually outperform the six year old Cine Alta predecessors. The difference comes down to the signal processing, cooling/heat dissipation, the recording bit rate, feature set ... and, naturally, profit margins.
Motion picture sensors seems to be designed around a native ISO without analouge gain amplification? I mean the nikon d800 have over 14 stops but at iso100. Alexa is ISO-less as I understand it, only the log curve shift and in RAW iso can be selected, so no signal gain? Im in deep waters now 
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Motion picture sensors seems to be designed around a native ISO without analouge gain amplification? I mean the nikon d800 have over 14 stops but at iso100. Alexa is ISO-less as I understand it, only the log curve shift and in RAW iso can be selected, so no signal gain? Im in deep waters now
Yep the arri is some tired old sensor - a tiny company begging some sensor company for just a couple of thousand - 2005 tech from the bin.. the D800 (in still frame mode) and true ISO (amplifier) basically eats the alexa. But the D800 only does 4 or 5 FPS - I dont know if it could go to 120 with the right back end.
(ducks for abuse!)
S
Samuel H
Major Contributor
Motion picture sensors seems to be designed around a native ISO without analouge gain amplification? I mean the nikon d800 have over 14 stops but at iso100. Alexa is ISO-less as I understand it, only the log curve shift and in RAW iso can be selected, so no signal gain? Im in deep waters now
The D800 at ISO 100 has very little headroom in the highlights, most of that DR comes in the shape of "you can lift the shadows A LOT". Underexpose by three stops to get a more reasonable highlights-shadows distribution of the DR, and you're already at ISO 800. I believe this is the reason Sony mirrorless cameras can shoot stills at low ISO but have crazy high minimum ISO when shooting slog video.
(this is something they didn't get right in the RED vs a7R comparison posted above)
AF on a $40k camera makes no sense to me... unless they're also presenting some crazy "tap on a screen and it will focus there at the speed you set on this other slider" tech. Unlikely.