Cine style zooms for AF100

Paul Vicente said:
Barry????? Your comment on this?
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Can't answer for sure yet. It's not that easy to communicate technical issues with the Japanese engineers when you don't speak a word of Japanese beyond "Konnichi-wa" and "domo arigato". But what I can tell you is that when I had a class 4 card in, and tried to record some 1080/60p, it wouldn't. It said "cannot record VFR on this card." They then explained to me that if you want to do overcranking, it will require a Class 6 card or better. And I'm not 100% sure why, because I think the AVCHD format limits them to no more than 24mbps, which would fit in Class 3, easily class 4. So it's possible that the bitrate is subject to being expanded beyond 24mbps when doing overcranking. Will attempt to get more details today if possible.

Also, 1/2-second shutter is back, so lovely time-lapse streaks are possible. And the focus-in-red is vastly improved as per accuracy. And there's a little "iris meter" like on the 7D/GH1 DSLRs, for those who like that kind of instant-feedback little gauge. VF and LCD are very sharp; we got to the bottom of Philip's complaint about the VF -- he's been spoiled by the obscenely huge view from a ZFinder, so he doesn't like the size of the AF100's projected VF display. I think it's fine as it's pretty much the same size or even a bit larger than all the other Panasonic AG cameras, but he wants a big beefy magnified 3" panel, and hey, I'd like it too if it were offered.

Unit is not complete, but it's vastly improved over the last one. Noise is much lower. Captured digital still frames suck. Unit is probably final hardware (being a "production line" sample) but they still have time to change hardware if our guys here find anything objectionable. Software is about 95% done. Still time to change anything that we really need changed (I'm lookin' at you, Ryan, with the 2.35-2.39 issue!) but don't expect major changes between now and production. They are going to be buttoning it up soon. It's like they're calling "last looks" on a film set, where right before you roll for real, you call out "last looks" so that all department heads can double-check and take care of any last-minute business.

They're calling "last looks". And right now, it looks pretty sweet.
 
Super8 said:
Hey Barry could you check if the lens mount looks solid? Was wondering if when connecting heavy lenses (2 to 6 pounds) do we need to reinforce the lens with a support as to not put stress to the mount?...or iis it built like a tank?
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We're using a set of Zeiss Compact Primes in native m43 mount, as well as a variety of Lumix and Olympus lenses. They're having us mount the CP2's directly, with no support. I don't really like that idea. They say that they're confident that the mount can take the weight. Maybe, but I just think of the additional torque when someone picks the unit up quickly, or the constant torque applied as you carry it, and ... that's a heavy lens to be hanging off there. I wouldn't do it with my CP's, I use a support shoe under it.

But, that said, that's me. They seem plenty confident that the mount can take the weight of at least a Compact Prime (which isn't the heaviest lens in the world, but it's not exactly an SLR lens either!)
 
Jesse Brauning said:
So you guys think they're going to announced revised specs with new features?
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No, what we know is what we know. But there are little changes, and it's really nice to be able to use one where the listed features actually work. We can probably release recorded footage from this unit. I'm more interested in the techs than in shooting beauty footage, but Filippo and Bloom and others should be releasing some stuff. We're going to some scenic locations today, should be some beauty shots coming from it.
 
manjeet singh said:
Barry could you please elaborate (names) on the still lenses, whose optics can be comparaed to the cine lenses. What would be a good set of primes for AF100.
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Well, the Zeiss ZF/ZE series, obviously, because they use the same glass as the Zeiss Compact Primes. Very, very good stills lenses. But there are others too.
 
Jaime Valles said:
Total speculation: We'll need Class 6 cards for the 1080/60p slo-mo. I doubt they'll increase the bitrate, but I sure would love it if they did!
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Exactly, but -- if they're not increasing the bitrate, why would it need class 6? That's the part I don't have a clear answer to.
 
dcloud said:
or avcpro hahaha yeah not realistic
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I have begged. I had an hour in front of the entire team of engineers to explain what we want. And I was told to be blunt. So I was blunt. And this was on my list. Not that there's anything wrong with AVCCAM PH mode, it really looks pretty dang good. But people get hung up on numbers. People think a 300x digital zoom must be better than a 200x digital zoom. And, frankly, sometimes the numbers matter -- just ask EX1/EX3 owners about the BBC. The BBC says you have to have 50 megabits or it's not HD, so even though the EX1/EX3 qualify in all other aspects, they can't be used as-is, they have to buy an additional Nano to qualify. So I say -- just give us the numbers. It's not even really about whether the codec is actually that much better or not, I want to be able to use it for all purposes, and if the BBC says 50mbps, I want to be able to say "yeah, mine does that." Of course, you can always get around it with the nano, but I think Panasonic would do themselves some favors if they started fighting the numbers game more aggressively.
 
Perhaps because Class-4 cards aren't really as fast as they say they are when sustained write speeds are taken into account? So when shooting 24fps the VBR keeps the data rate - on average - low enough for class 4. When something amazing happens, it'll peak for a bit, but the card can handle that for a few seconds.

I'd guess when shooting 60fps, the VBR stays pretty much maxed out and the Class 4 cards just can't manage a sustained write at that speed. Maybe?

Or perhaps because some brands of CF cards are inaccurately spec'ed and Panasonic is pushing people to purchase a bit more than they need so they don't get stuck with comments like "The camera is supposed to do 60fps, but when I try it ___<insert horrible scenario here>___".

Proper standardized media formats...
 
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drats. well gotta buy extra class 6 with my 4's

Thanks for the news barry.
post some more new stuff soon :)
 
Barry_Green said:
I have begged. I had an hour in front of the entire team of engineers to explain what we want. And I was told to be blunt. So I was blunt. And this was on my list. Not that there's anything wrong with AVCCAM PH mode, it really looks pretty dang good. But people get hung up on numbers. People think a 300x digital zoom must be better than a 200x digital zoom. And, frankly, sometimes the numbers matter -- just ask EX1/EX3 owners about the BBC. The BBC says you have to have 50 megabits or it's not HD, so even though the EX1/EX3 qualify in all other aspects, they can't be used as-is, they have to buy an additional Nano to qualify. So I say -- just give us the numbers. It's not even really about whether the codec is actually that much better or not, I want to be able to use it for all purposes, and if the BBC says 50mbps, I want to be able to say "yeah, mine does that." Of course, you can always get around it with the nano, but I think Panasonic would do themselves some favors if they started fighting the numbers game more aggressively.
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Your comment left room to hope Barry :D

Thanks for all your doing! Can't wait to see your write ups and any footage.
 
Barry_Green said:
I have begged. I had an hour in front of the entire team of engineers to explain what we want. And I was told to be blunt. So I was blunt. And this was on my list. Not that there's anything wrong with AVCCAM PH mode, it really looks pretty dang good. But people get hung up on numbers. People think a 300x digital zoom must be better than a 200x digital zoom. And, frankly, sometimes the numbers matter -- just ask EX1/EX3 owners about the BBC. The BBC says you have to have 50 megabits or it's not HD, so even though the EX1/EX3 qualify in all other aspects, they can't be used as-is, they have to buy an additional Nano to qualify. So I say -- just give us the numbers. It's not even really about whether the codec is actually that much better or not, I want to be able to use it for all purposes, and if the BBC says 50mbps, I want to be able to say "yeah, mine does that." Of course, you can always get around it with the nano, but I think Panasonic would do themselves some favors if they started fighting the numbers game more aggressively.
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What was the reaction? Rubbing of chin, looking at you weirdly, bows and says "thank you for your comments. we'll try to consider it"

Was the female engineer there too? I remember a pic of her with jan and shes cute lol
 
If you look at how the EX1/3 performs 24p/60p overcranking, it takes the 60p framerate, and puts it in a 24p wrapper that has a playback datarate of 35mbps VBR. So the actual datarate onto the cards during recording is roughly 87.5 mbps.

I would imagine the 1080p60 overcranking in the AF100 is handled the same way, which would give peak/average recorded data rates of 52.5/60mbps and a 24p playback data rate of 21/24mbps. That's a little bit outside the class 6 spec, but class 6 specifies a minimum data rate (cards could have better performance) and there would be an in-camera buffer that could absorb some slack during shorter recordings.

If that's the case it would explain why class 4 cards can't hack it, and is great news for the quality of the overcrank feature.
 
There were 100+ guys and yes one female engineer. I suspect her social calendar doesn't lack.

When I said captured digital stills suck, I don't mean grabs from the timeline. I mean it isn't a dslr. You can tell it to capture a single frame out of the video (when recording or when paused) and it will save it as a jpg but in this unit the quality isn't very good.

Stills from the timeline look fab.
 
Back to thread title: super 16 zoom?

Back to thread title: super 16 zoom?

Sorry if this was already posted on the forum previously (I`m kinda new here), but I think I`ve got a good theory about zooms and m4/3.What about using a super16 zoom along with a pl mount optical extender, say 1.4 or 2x? Say you use af100>m4/3-to-pl-adaptor>1.4x extender>Super16 zoom (say, zeis 10-100 T2). The extender should nicely extend the image circle of the lens to the 4/3 sensor size. Now I`ne done some research and here`s what I`ve got: I took my company`s b4 2/3 inch canon zoom (4.5x13 f 1.7) with integrated 2x extender on, and puted it aginst my nikon photo camery bayonet (simply holding the lens in one hand and a camera in the other) - good thing that b4 and nikor f mounts got similar ffd. And guess what - the 2/3 image circle with 2x extender was almost enough to cover the APS sized sensor of the photo camera (maybe I`ll post some pictures later). Of course, 2x extender "eats" 2 f-stops, so you end up with something like f3.5 instead of f1.7. But it was b4 aginst aps. I guess, if you pick super16 and a 4/3 sensor, you might get through with a 1.4 extender (wich is, i guess, even better quality optics then 2x) and loose only 1 f-stop, so if you start with zeiss t2.0, you might end up with t2.8, wich is preaty nice, considering 10x zoom and a lightweight of super16.If some one could give that a shot and write bout it here, I would be very pleased, as I live in former USSR country and all the stuff must be delivered from overseas, wich is a real paint in the butt, and that`s why I cant just go to the rentl house and try it myself. Thanks.
 
BTW, about super35...

BTW, about super35...

As mentioned above, most of the super35 zoom lenses have several major problems, that might make the using of them on af100 too tricky - they are heavy, expensive and TOO MUCH TELE - the 18 mils, preaty wide angle on super35, is equal to about 30 on 4/3 (as I understand, the m4/3 has a 1.5x multiplier in FOV compared with super35), wich is... not. So the 25-... zoom will become 40-... wich is VERY tele for run-n-gun style of shooting.
 
Barry_Green said:
I have begged. I had an hour in front of the entire team of engineers to explain what we want... And, frankly, sometimes the numbers matter -- just ask EX1/EX3 owners about the BBC. The BBC says you have to have 50 megabits or it's not HD, so even though the EX1/EX3 qualify in all other aspects, they can't be used as-is, they have to buy an additional Nano to qualify. So I say -- just give us the numbers. It's not even really about whether the codec is actually that much better or not, I want to be able to use it for all purposes, and if the BBC says 50mbps, I want to be able to say "yeah, mine does that." Of course, you can always get around it with the nano, but I think Panasonic would do themselves some favors if they started fighting the numbers game more aggressively.
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Gokurosama deshita (thank you for your efforts)
 
Barry,
I just paid deposit for AF-100 with few lenses.
BUT WHY there is no AUDIO AUTO AGC??? Limiter is a JOKE.
If i want to be Audio "Purist" i choose MANUAL CONTROL if i work alone as a ONE MAN BAND "automatic audio AGC" is very handy.ALL Panasonic High End cameras have it even Varicam and All Sonys have it.
AF100 and HVX200ssssss must be different. I have asked for this so many times......and having 1/2" VF on large sensor is great for focusing especially if one is over 40 :-)....how about some 2-3" VF??
I will pay extra for it.....i know lets wait for MICRO VF. Can't they have CAMERAMEN designing these things??????????

regards jiri
 
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