Cine style zooms for AF100

D

DaveN

Member
Are there others out there like myself who want to know the practical realities of using the AF100 with an Optimo or a LWZ.2? Most of the work I do is news magazine style and primes just don't seem realistic for our typical shooting day. Thanks for hearing a first-time poster.
 
The problem with cine zooms is that they're huge and expensive. That limits their usefulness on a $4995 camera body. The Red Pro 17-50 is probably the cheapest legitimate cinema zoom on the market, and it's only a 3x. The Angenieux 24-290 is a 12x, more like what video shooters are used to, but it's 24 pounds! 24 pounds, just for the lens.

So if you have a cine zoom lens that you want to use on the AF100, by all means, go right ahead -- it will work. Even the Optimo Rouge DP lenses work, I think. But cinema zooms aren't like video zoom lenses so thre's not a direct correlation there.
 
Thanks Barry. I guess I'm so jazzed about the potential finally to shoot interviews and some b-roll without it all looking like it came from our EX3. Maybe it's just a matter of trying a little harder to wrap my head around stills lenses on a video camera. Don't know what I would do without a mattebox though.
 
A mattebox will work much better with a cine zoom, than it will with an SLR zoom. Well, some SLR zooms; like the Panasonic 14-140, it extends massively during the zoom range, making it pretty relatively useless with a rails-mounted mattebox. Cinema lenses don't extend so they're much easier to use with rails-mounted matteboxes.
 
There are some applications where a smaller sensor camera system makes more practical sense. Compact fast wide range zooms are not possible with 35mm sized sensors. They get very large and heavy very fast. So one has to compromise on focal lengths and zoom range, or speed, or both to keep size and weight within reason. A major reason why 2/3" is my preferred format for most purposes.
 
I think the big hurdle that the AF 100 has to overcome is some sort of a useful zoom in a compact and lightweight form factor. Clearing this hurdle is going to be a real issue.... I like the AF 100 because there are lots of possible lens options with the right adapter, but very few of them are going to offer the functionality of a good ENG type zoom once they are mounted. I have a 370 with standard and wide angle zoom and I'm definitely keeping that around for times when I have to pick up a camera and shoot docco style with a minimum of hassles.
 
But how is that something that the AF100 has to overcome? That same issue applies to any and all large-sensor cameras. If a solution exists for any large-sensor camera, it will by default work with the AF100 as well.

That's not a problem for the AF100 to solve, that's a problem for the lens manufacturers to address.
 
Be creative - storyboard without zoom shots - just like the DSLR shooters have done for two years now.
 
... and put your lens on a still cam and check the jpeg metadata so you can create your own focal length markings on your lenses
... and get a few manual focus primes so you can rack focus without an infinite focus ring

great creativity can come from limitations
 
That's not a bad price on the DigiOptical package considering they were that price each when branded by Red. But I think I read somewhere that those lenses were rehoused sigma's. Does it really cost that much to take the glass from a $600 lens and put it in a pl mount case. Why don't still cameras have iris rings any more? Lets hope that Sigma, Tamron and Tokina just start making lenses that will be native on the AF100 and priced as they normally are.
 
Barry_Green said:
But how is that something that the AF100 has to overcome? That same issue applies to any and all large-sensor cameras. If a solution exists for any large-sensor camera, it will by default work with the AF100 as well.

That's not a problem for the AF100 to solve, that's a problem for the lens manufacturers to address.
Click to expand...

Ok all similar sized sensor equipped cameras will have the same issue with zooms. Maybe its just that the AF 100 folks will be the first to arrive at this precipice of not having a real zoom lens to use that fits in the price/ size / weight range of the camera. If I recall correctly, you even raised this issue at the focus group that panasonic hosted. At any rate the lack of zooms is going to be an issue for AF 100 users...
 
To just give an idea...

The lightest of those Fujinon zooms weighs 14.3 lbs. The heaviest is 19.6 lbs. That's 6.5 and 8.9kg respectively for those who are metric minded.

RED's 18-85 is 9.9lbs.

These lenses are big and heavy. They absolutely dwarf still lenses.
 
Mark Smith said:
Ok all similar sized sensor equipped cameras will have the same issue with zooms. Maybe its just that the AF 100 folks will be the first to arrive at this precipice of not having a real zoom lens to use that fits in the price/ size / weight range of the camera. If I recall correctly, you even raised this issue at the focus group that panasonic hosted. At any rate the lack of zooms is going to be an issue for AF 100 users...
Click to expand...

Agreed. That's what's held back all manufacturers from making large-sensor video cameras. Why hasn't Canon done it? They don't have glass. The reason Panasonic could do it is because their Lumix division makes a zoom that can be used for video-style shooting. The 14-140 is slow, but other than that it gets the job done. And I consider it a must-have for anyone who will contemplate ever doing anything video-style with an AF100.

If there's to be an ENG-style lens with a power servo zoom, that's something that Fujinon or Canon would have to come up with, because hey, they're the lens-makers.

For cine zooms, there are lots of those on the market, but as has been pointed out, they're huge and extremely expensive. The new Fujinon 18-85, is, what, $80,000?

But again, the exact same situation will apply to any large-sensor camera. The thing is, if any other manufacturer manages to come up with the lens you're looking for, it'll work on the AF100 too because the AF100 has adapters for just about everything. But the AF100's 14-140 can't be used on any of the other manufacturer's cameras. Unless they join the m43 standard, that is...
 
As far as I know, there is only one somewhat affordable, reasonably light-weight cine zoom lens; the DigiOptical 18-50 at four thousand dollars. I've heard it's pretty inferior to the new Red 17-50, but it's pretty handy and a great many projects could be shot with this single lens. One could mount any number of stills zoom lenses for far less money, but they are all best used as variable focal length lenses rather than true zooms as they all breathe badly and are not suitable for accurate follow focusing.

Those contemplating an AF100 should consider the cost and weight of lenses; it's not a trivial issue; my lenses cost a great deal more than my Red camera body. I might add that things are even worse for the Canon 5D; only the compact primes fit the bill at about 4K each and the Zeiss 15.5-45 zoom is a cool thirty grand. A complete set of primes and the little zoom will set you back fifty thousand smacks. What's about twenty times the cost of the camera body!

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
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