Choice of HDV camera

S

Swissfox

New member
I've been playing with the thought of finally buying an HD(V)-Cam for a few months already.

I'd be mostly using it for music videos for the moment and (later on) shorts and - if possible - features.

Due to budget constraints, the Red is definitely out of question. I've been to the States in fall/winter 2008/09 and it seems to be the **** right now, everyone has one or is about to get one (I see the attraction but don't get the hype, know what I mean?). I just don't have a spare 30'000 bucks lying around, waiting to be used up.

I'm looking at spending between 3000 and a max of 5000 dollars for the camera alone (plus more for an additional mic & boom pole, tripod, case, P2cards/cassettes). I already own a MacBook Pro with FinalCut Express (upgrade to Pro at a later point) and am getting an additional 1 TB external harddrive soon.

So far, three cameras have made it to the selection:
Canon XH A1
Panasonic HVX200/200A
JVC GY-110U

Canon sells the XH A1 for cheap now and I wonder if they're about to release a successor...? I've read an awful lot about the XH A1 vs. HVX 200 stance (DVXuser included), and I have an affinity for the Canon. There doesn't seem to be much of a difference in picture quality, after customizing the settings on the Canon. Not being able to shoot 720p and the tiny, cumbersome LCD display is a minor letdown, though. Although some of the technical aspects of the HVX 200 seem to be slightly better, the cost and the workflow issue with the P2 cards kills it for me. Then again, I've asked a Canadian buddy of mine who works as a cameraman/cam assistant and he said "regardless of the cost factor, buy Panasonic".

I've worked with the DVX100 before (god bless that great MiniDV piece) and have nothing against Panasonic, but ask myself whether the jump to the HVX200 is really worth the money.

And just recently, the JVC GY-110U has gained my attention. B&H sells a kit for less than 4000 dollars US and it's gotten a lot of positive reviews in the past. Also, it's a more "professional" camera judging by the looks and having to use it on the shoulders for handheld shots demands more thought while shooting (I'd say the Canon and Panasonic are probably still considered "toys" by outsiders when spotted, simply because of their size and looks). Plus, the lens can be adjusted manually (simultaneous zooming & focusing possible, a treat the XH A1 can't pull off). Actually, I'm not that fond of handheld shots - bad examples like "The Bourne Supremacy" chase in Moscow have spoilt it for me. I'd rather go for something steady, a proper frame - although I see the need for "moving" images in the music video department.

The main goal is to get an NTSC cam in order to shoot 24p (or 24f with the XH A1). I'm not much into PAL standards, even though I live in Europe. 24p is THE film look and that's what I want to go for, with the option of buying a 35mm adapter later on (I don't have the money for that extra right now). I can still convert it to 25p in Final Cut, if such a version is needed for distribution.

What is with the battery life and those three machines? Which one lasts longer? If necessary, what extra battery/batteries should I go for?

I don't know a lot about the current Sony lineup and tend to stay away from their cameras.

I'd be really glad if you could also give me some recommendations on
- Shotgun mics: I'm currently favouring the Rode NTG-2 (or the Azden SGM-PDII), although I'm not sure whether the JVC actually requires an additional shotgun mic, how's that sound quality with the built-in mic, anyway? Rode is my favourite because B&H also offers a great kit with a proper Rode boom pole these days. BUT, apparently, the XH A1 shotgun holder is slightly bigger than the Rode...
- Tripod: Looking at the Manfrotto 503HDV, but I guess Sachtler are worth mentioning, too... Anything that is solid enough, with good legs/stands and a durable head, thank you.
- Tapes: Do Sony's DVM60PRs the trick or should I go with something more HD(V)-ready?
- Case: I already have a Kata backpack for my Canon 450D/Rebel XSi which I love to pieces, so that brand's an obvious choice - CCC 10A, anyone? Or Lowepro, stiil?

Thanks in advance for any advice. If you have other alternatives in one of the aforementioned categories, shoot!

(Sorry for posting this right in the XH A1 forum, but I couldn't find a more "general" corner on here... Mods, feel free to move this topic)
 
Swissfox said:
I've been playing with the thought of finally buying an HD(V)-Cam for a few months already.

I'd be mostly using it for music videos for the moment and (later on) shorts and - if possible - features.

Due to budget constraints, the Red is definitely out of question. I've been to the States in fall/winter 2008/09 and it seems to be the shi* right now, everyone has one or is about to get one (I see the attraction but don't get the hype, know what I mean?). I just don't have a spare 30'000 bucks lying around, waiting to be used up.

I'm looking at spending between 3000 and a max of 5000 dollars for the camera alone (plus more for an additional mic & boom pole, tripod, case, P2cards/cassettes). I already own a MacBook Pro with FinalCut Express (upgrade to Pro at a later point) and am getting an additional 1 TB external harddrive soon.

So far, three cameras have made it to the selection:
Canon XH A1
Panasonic HVX200/200A
JVC GY-110U

Canon sells the XH A1 for cheap now and I wonder if they're about to release a successor...? I've read an awful lot about the XH A1 vs. HVX 200 stance (DVXuser included), and I have an affinity for the Canon. There doesn't seem to be much of a difference in picture quality, after customizing the settings on the Canon. Not being able to shoot 720p and the tiny, cumbersome LCD display is a minor letdown, though. Although some of the technical aspects of the HVX 200 seem to be slightly better, the cost and the workflow issue with the P2 cards kills it for me. Then again, I've asked a Canadian buddy of mine who works as a cameraman/cam assistant and he said "regardless of the cost factor, buy Panasonic".

I've worked with the DVX100 before (god bless that great MiniDV piece) and have nothing against Panasonic, but ask myself whether the jump to the HVX200 is really worth the money.

And just recently, the JVC GY-110U has gained my attention. B&H sells a kit for less than 4000 dollars US and it's gotten a lot of positive reviews in the past. Also, it's a more "professional" camera judging by the looks and having to use it on the shoulders for handheld shots demands more thought while shooting (I'd say the Canon and Panasonic are probably still considered "toys" by outsiders when spotted, simply because of their size and looks). Plus, the lens can be adjusted manually (simultaneous zooming & focusing possible, a treat the XH A1 can't pull off). Actually, I'm not that fond of handheld shots - bad examples like "The Bourne Supremacy" chase in Moscow have spoilt it for me. I'd rather go for something steady, a proper frame - although I see the need for "moving" images in the music video department.

The main goal is to get an NTSC cam in order to shoot 24p (or 24f with the XH A1). I'm not much into PAL standards, even though I live in Europe. 24p is THE film look and that's what I want to go for, with the option of buying a 35mm adapter later on (I don't have the money for that extra right now). I can still convert it to 25p in Final Cut, if such a version is needed for distribution.

What is with the battery life and those three machines? Which one lasts longer? If necessary, what extra battery/batteries should I go for?

I don't know a lot about the current Sony lineup and tend to stay away from their cameras.

I'd be really glad if you could also give me some recommendations on
- Shotgun mics: I'm currently favouring the Rode NTG-2 (or the Azden SGM-PDII), although I'm not sure whether the JVC actually requires an additional shotgun mic, how's that sound quality with the built-in mic, anyway? Rode is my favourite because B&H also offers a great kit with a proper Rode boom pole these days. BUT, apparently, the XH A1 shotgun holder is slightly bigger than the Rode...
- Tripod: Looking at the Manfrotto 503HDV, but I guess Sachtler are worth mentioning, too... Anything that is solid enough, with good legs/stands and a durable head, thank you.
- Tapes: Do Sony's DVM60PRs the trick or should I go with something more HD(V)-ready?
- Case: I already have a Kata backpack for my Canon 450D/Rebel XSi which I love to pieces, so that brand's an obvious choice - CCC 10A, anyone? Or Lowepro, stiil?

Thanks in advance for any advice. If you have other alternatives in one of the aforementioned categories, shoot!

(Sorry for posting this right in the XH A1 forum, but I couldn't find a more "general" corner on here... Mods, feel free to move this topic)
Click to expand...

The XH-A1 successor was already released -- well, more of an updated version of the XH-A1. It's the XH-A1s. On this, you can zoom and focus at the same time. ;) It upgrades lot of little things here and there, and is worth it if you don't already own an XH-A1. The camera itself is not a toy in the least, and the HVX-200 is only worth it if you're dying for the 4:2:2, and really like panasonic. Honestly, I don't really think the pricetag on the HVX is worth it at all. The XH-A1 will produce any results you'll need for a professional look as far as documentary, commercials, training videos, and especially filmmaking. The issue with achieving a 'film' and 'professional' look in filmmaking is not the camera so much as it is proper lighting, camera angles, etc etc. Unless for whatever reason you have a producer who wants to blow the extra money on an HVX200a, get the XH-A1. It will work fine with any 35mm adapter you want. (it has 72mm threads, for future reference) The XH-A1s is currently retailing for 3999.99, and is worth every penny. As far as shotgun microphones got, for a professional quality shotgun microphone, the best bet is the Rode NTG-3. It's pretty much identical in workmanship quality and audio quality as the Sennheiser 416, so there's no real reason to waste extra money on a Sennheiser. Whatever tripod you get, if you're gonna be doing anything that needs smooth professional panning or tilting, be sure to pick up one with a fluid head, or just buy the legs and purchase a fluid head seperately. Manfrotto is a good choice. As far as tapes go I can't help ya, I prefer to use the Canon Firestore 60gb, keep my workflow completely digital. It's such a timesaver, and being able to automatically review takes is worth it's weight in gold. Hope this helps.
 
well, we're on a dvx inspired site, so us A1 users should feel lucky to be here, right? :-)

to be fair, the unofficial successor to the Panny HVX200 is the HPX170...have a look at the specs to better educate yourself on what you get for the money, as well as any drawbacks...i am Canon faithful, but i thought it was worth a mention....you will never regret the A1(s)...seriously...best in show HDV codec, Canon optics, and like filmgeek said, every adapter will work, should you go that rout, and in-cam tweeks are endless....really is a special camera for the money. best of luck in your decision!

Chris
A1 footage www.vimeo.com/chrislight
 
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Thanks for the replies so far. In the meantime, I've also searched the web for more info on movies that have been shot with the XH-A1 and there's a few like "Crank" or "The Dead Outside", the latter looking especially well-made.

I had totally forgotten about the XH-A1s up until today and have already seen a few really good offers for the PAL version, which I know favour because of the higher resolution. How much is that Canon upgrade to 24p again? 500 dollars?

The Firestore FSC-HD60 is a neat thing to have - I guess, in the long run, it does save you money when you're shooting a lot of footage. How many hours can you put on one of these babies? I've heard 3 1/2-4 1/2 - is that true? 1200 dollars extra... Hmm...

I also noticed that the Canon 970G battery pack (the biggest one available for the XH-A1) is labelled 7200 mAh on B&H, whereas on a Swiss comparison website, I've found the same battery, but with 7650 mAh. I hope there's not much of a trouble using either one on a PAL or NTSC XH-A1, right?
 
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