Chinese 2K RAW S35 Cinema Camera, 8000 dollars

I got a new firmware update for the KineRAW-S8p (tm) that now adds anamorphic de-squeeze to the viewfinder, that along with the new 200% zoom are a great help in getting both the prime lens and the anamorphic adapter in focus. The de-squeeze supports anamorphic ratios 1.25x 1.33x 1.5x 1.75x and 2.0x which should take care of most adapters one can find.

Some of the more useful options are:

Shoot 1828x1556 with 2:1 squeeze lens for 2.35:1 results those can crop to 2.39:1 for DCP

Shoot 1920x1440 with 1.75:1 squeeze lens for 2.35:1 results those can crop to 2.39:1 for DCP

Shoot 1920x1440 with 1.33:1 squeeze lens for 16:9 results with vertical oversample.

There are also some improvements to the meta-data support and color matching for processing on the Adobe (tm) SDK workflows and other software that uses the DNG tags for color balance.

There should be some news about the S35 in a few weeks when the new prototypes are put together if things go as planed.
 
Sample KineRAW-S35 (tm) back from factory NOW and shooting DNG and CINEFORM (tm)

Sample KineRAW-S35 (tm) back from factory NOW and shooting DNG and CINEFORM (tm)

I got word from Kinefinity (tm) in China that they have just gotten two working prototypes of the revised KineRAW-S35 (tm) from the factory, and they are shooting both CinemaDNG (uncompressed True RAW) and Cineform (tm) (wavelet compressed 'raw' like RED's cameras) with them.

There making some tweaks to the firmware and a few other things, but shooting should be able to start before too long on some new demo footage. I'm not sure what the maximum resolution is currently, but I think 2048x1080 is supported for making DCP for projection in digital movie theaters, as well as HD mode.
 
dynamic range limits

dynamic range limits

HHL said:
OH SNAP!!!! If they deliver 2K RAW, 13 stops for $8K with a S35 sensor it may persuade me into going with the larger form factor. YIKES! Looking good.....
Click to expand...

Dynamic range of cameras are ultimately limited by the ADC bits, in the KineRAW-S8p (tm) its using a 12bit ADC, so the dynamic range is limited to about 11 1/2 stops. To get 13stops+ the S35 would probably be using a 14bit ADC mode. My free de-Bayer program supports up to 16bits now, so its ready for such wide range True RAW data now. I've done some tests on samples sent before and the noise seems lower in the S35, making the maximum EI/ISO you can get probably at lest maybe 2 stops better, maybe more. If I get a chance I'll see what I can squeeze out of the raw data...
 
Keyboard Shortcut to Create the Trademark Symbol ™

Keyboard Shortcut to Create the Trademark Symbol ™

Windows: ALT + 0153 Mac: Option + 2
 
This camera certainly does seem great on paper, but what about in the real world? If it breaks, do you send it back to China for repair? At least with Red, we just drive it to Lake Forrest or Hollywood and get it back in a couple days. I can't imagine saving money buying this Chinese camera and then not having that piece of mind should anything happen. I'd rather pay extra money and have a solid support system.

That's my $.02, what do you guys think?
 
I agree with your sentiments on the issues of shipping.
I have had enough problems with sellers from China disappearing with $50 items ("no, we never received it! Must be lost, oh well!) and I don't think I could trust dealing with them directly for $8k.
That being said, if they had dealers in the respective country who aren't likely to up and leave when you need help I would definitely reconsider.
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
This camera certainly does seem great on paper, but what about in the real world? If it breaks, do you send it back to China for repair? At least with Red, we just drive it to Lake Forrest or Hollywood and get it back in a couple days. I can't imagine saving money buying this Chinese camera and then not having that piece of mind should anything happen. I'd rather pay extra money and have a solid support system.

That's my $.02, what do you guys think?
Click to expand...


Having a service center and an authorized vendor stateside would give a lot of peace of mind, and I live in Texas... sending a system back to Hollywood might as well be China AFAIC, but I am definitely more comfortable the closer it is. Never when you have to go on an angry drive...
 
KineRAW-S35 (tm) revised protoyupe working now

KineRAW-S35 (tm) revised protoyupe working now

I have been processing some sample DNG shot in the KineRAW-S35 (tm) revised prototype. The frames were marked ISO 400 and 800 and were shot indoors under 5400K CF lamps.They have been looking over the results and asking for some changes to the camera monitoring LUT files that I have made in my free de-Bayer program which makes a sample image. To make the monitoring LUT I take a DNG shot in the camera and measure 90% white and 18% gray absolute code values in my freeish DI systems grading commands, then enter those along with the name of the color correction template and some other camera control information through menus, and that makes a special kind of look file for use in the camera, the camera then translates that into meta-data for the DNG and 3D-LUT for Cineform (tm) and other workflows. You can select the camera monitoring 'look' file while you shoot and that gets encoded into the frames and shot folders for later use in color correcting the images. So things seem to be moving forward. I'm finishing up the anamorphic test reel for the KineRAW-S8p (tm) and hope to post that on Vimeo before the end of March if things go well.
 
Last edited:
With regard to the durability of the KineRAW (tm), so far the protoype I am using for software development and testing is still working and working better with some firmware revisions that I downloaded from their ftp (requires password at this time since the firmware is not released to the public yet).

The KineRAW-S8p (tm) at maybe $1500 to $2000 is not so high that you could not maybe afford two of them so that you have a backup, something that I could not do with Epic (tm) or Alexa (tm). Any camera can die while you are shooting, so being able to afford a backup is not something without merit since much of you cost is in the actors and sets and being able to be more or less sure you can shoot no mater what because you have a backup is better peace of mind, than knowing you can get a 5 day turn around from a 'local' shop that is 800 miles away.
 
Dan Hudgins said:
The KineRAW-S8p (tm) at maybe $1500 to $2000 is not so high that you could not maybe afford two of them so that you have a backup, something that I could not do with Epic (tm) or Alexa (tm). Any camera can die while you are shooting, so being able to afford a backup is not something without merit since much of you cost is in the actors and sets and being able to be more or less sure you can shoot no mater what because you have a backup is better peace of mind, than knowing you can get a 5 day turn around from a 'local' shop that is 800 miles away.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but the s35 is, and that's the one that gives pause, at the moment. I wonder if there is a way to get authorized to carry parts for them and repair them?
 
repairs

repairs

pharpsied said:
Yeah, but the s35 is, and that's the one that gives pause, at the moment. I wonder if there is a way to get authorized to carry parts for them and repair them?
Click to expand...

Maybe, you should email them if you are serious about doing service, but you will need to be on like 24/7 call since if you go out of town people will not be happy with the hold up on getting their packages out of FedX and into your hands and such and if you miss the last deliveries attempt it will go back and the sender will lose his postage payment, so who will reimburse him? Its hard to do that as a one-man-band.

They asked me if I would do it, but you need insurance to cover the cost of mishap and theft and such, a commercial address, to pay inventory tax, business tax, sales tax, income tax, get clearance from the EPA for using lead solder, ship bits of solder to a toxic waste dump, file tracking paper work for the "toxic" waste. And so on and so forth. If you break or scratch someone's $8000 camera, would you be the one who would need to reimburse them. Who makes the insurance claim if its damaged in the post?

If the cameras are reliable and only maybe 10% will be sold in North America, so maybe you get one repair every few months to swap a circuit board?

After all the costs are put out would you make $10 per hour?

Better think it through and talk to people in the camera repair business before talking about something that is illegal or unprofitable.

I suggested that they make the camera a bus design and so users could swap plug in boards themselves that way the body would not need to be sent back, and the camera could have built in service diagnostics to tell what board needs replacement. As far as I know that is not how the thing turned out.

They do understand the issue, but as sales are only in China to start with, their thoughts seem to be on that for now.

I've been dealing with the public for about 26 years by correspondence and have repair experience from before that, so you need to think about what responsibilities come with the concept.

People can make their own mind up about what risk they will take on, and that is true to some degree no matter what camera they use. Have you read complaints of what RED (tm) is charging for repairs on out of warranty older RED ONE on REDUSER?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top