Cheapest FullHD CCD camera

Daniel Krnac

Daniel Krnac

Active member
Hi,

I´ve been deciding for a while, quite a while now actually, if I should buy a DSLR or a HD camcorder.

The main purpose is shooting cars (video only). That means a lot of movement most of the time (camera on the car with a suction mount, on the ground chasing the car...) and a showcase of cars from a tripod or handheld (basicaly, Topgear is as good as it gets at the moment :D ).

At the moment I own a Lumix GZ7 (PAL WVGA, 800*480) which is wonderfull as CCD camcorder (small, no rolling shutter, lightweigth) and a Dogcam 520 POV camera (4:3, 520tvl, survived a crash into a tree :D, this thing is indestructable) which is recorded into a laptop via a USB input card.
I also use other cameras in the signature, but they are not mine.

So a CCD camera is much better. But when I was trying to find something sub 1500 euro which is 3CCD, FullHD, has a focus ring, a rail for additional microphone, mic in, there is simply nothing to suit that :( Plenty of CMOS thou...

Then I found the Lumix GH1 which is simply amazing for its price. The flexibility of changing the lens, low light capability, picture quality, ... simply stunning.
And now, when the GH2 is comming out, I´m seriously starting to preffer it.

A gigantic no for me, ist the CMOS sensor.
Half the time, the camera is mounted on a sports car and the vibration is simply making some of the footage unusable for broadcast. On the other hand, Topgear crew are also switching from 4:3 CCD POV cameras to CMOS HD ones, and sometimes they don´t really care about the jello. But I would still prefer smooth movement over the resolution...

The ideal solution is to both have a CCD camera and a DSLR. If I could only s**t money :D

So, any advice, tip? Cameras, DSLR... :D

THX.
D.K.

BTW - the smaller the device is, the better.
 
So as I expected, the one we have at work is, at the moment, a gread bargain - JVC GZ HD7
( http://cgi.ebay.com/JVC-Everio-GZ-H...deo_Cameras&hash=item4aa7136f36#ht_500wt_1156 )

+full HD
+records to HDD (60GB)
+mic in
+focus ring
+3CCD
+rail for mic/ligth
+manual IRIS, shutter

-30i only (but I had no real problem converting it to 25, looked good... until it was uploaded on youtube and converted to 30 again, looked like ****)
-idiotic TOD files
-no headphone out
-no built in ND

I´m sure you can even get it cheaper than this.
 
Depends on what you mean by "full HD". If you want a three-chip camera with three CCDs that are each 1920x1080 resolution, the cheapest unit on the market is probably the PMW500 from Sony, which is $25,000.
 
let me specify:
something that produces a Full HD resolution video in the end with bearable results and doesn´t have rolling shutter.
 
Hey, it's still a massive price drop from when you had to get an F900 to get those specs; that thing used to be, what, $90,000?

But yeah, gobs of pixels + CCD + low cost don't go together. You can get gobs of pixels + CMOS + low cost, but you can't do the same thing with CCD. The three lowest-cost units I can think of offhand, that are 1920x1080 CCD, are the $25k PMW500, the $30K PDW700 and the $30K HPX3100.
 
Daniel Krnac said:
let me specify:
something that produces a Full HD resolution video in the end with bearable results and doesn´t have rolling shutter.
Click to expand...

Well... again, depends on what you term "Full HD resolution". An HMC150 is $2800, records 1920x1080 "full HD", and is CCD. But its images aren't as sharp as an HPX370 or EX1. The JVC HM700 has three CCDs, and I think it can record 1920x1080, but its chips are 1280x720 so it isn't going to be as sharp as an EX1/HPX370 either. For that matter, neither the HMC150 or HM700 are as sharp as a $1700 HMC40, but that uses CMOS chips and has the rolling shutter issues that all CMOS camcorders have.

It's almost easier to just name off what CCD camcorders are left on the market, and let you decide if you think they're sharp enough.
1/3":
HMC150/HPX170
XHA1s/XLH1s
HM700

1/2":
Sony XDCAM-HD series

2/3":
PDW700
PDW800
PMW500
HPX3100
HPX2000
HPX2700
HPX3700

There are others, but ... that's pretty much all that's left in CCD. Almost all consumer camcorders are CMOS now, AFAIK.
 
EDIT: i was replying to the previous post :)

Unfortunately, those are still way, way over my budget :( (and also, too big)
I can use cameras in my signature for most of the shoots but not for all so I also need my own equipement (GH2 and something CCD).

Most of the time, we shoot with JVC GY-HD250U that´s probably there somewhere with cameras you´ve mentioned.
The size is making it useless for about half the things I need to shoot. That matters more than image quality.

For example, this summer I was shooting a regata (yacht race). Try to run around a boat in 45° angle with that thing on your shoulder - "It´s all going to go horribly wrong" (Jeremy Clarkson). :D
I´ve ended up shooting the whole thing with a POV camera instead. It was simply not possible with the big boy...

BTW, thanks for the advice.
 
Last edited:
Thing is, you can't get small, "full HD", and CCD all together. You're either going to compromise on sharpness (by going with the HMC150) or by getting a CMOS chip. That's just the way it is in the market. CCD was king through the SD days, but it's really tough if not impossible to make a 1920x1080 CCD chip. At least, nobody's made one any smaller than 2/3" yet.

If you want a small "full HD" camera, it's going to be CMOS. The HMC150 or JVC HM100 are your closest alternatives in CCD.
 
I understand and I prefer smaller camera over shrapness and even lower res CCD (I was even considering WVGA resolution camera).
Besides, excluding HBO and some cable programmes, there is not one TV in slovakia, that broadcasts their own stuff in HD (what a shame). So no point in chasing MPX for TV use. Secondly, the videos I do for web are sometimes HD, but mostly SD or even less.

HMC150 or JVC HM100 really seem like a great choice.

The HD7 is a consumer camera but for the price (less than 800 dollars), it really gives me what I need except the phones out :(
Shure, if I had the money, I´d buy one of those two in a heartbeat :D
The HM100 is, at the moment, my favourite camera of choice - ligth, nimble, picture is nice, conectivity is good.

People sometimes forget what´s important: what is being shot by the camera, rather than the camera. ;)
 
Thanks for the tip.
But the Lumix FZ7 I have, makes higher res videos (848×480p). It´s the things around which I need - conectivity, good audio , focus ring etc.
 
I thought about this for a second, but I don't really think there is a camera in the marketplace today that will meet your demands.

You can go the Canon S95 route (CCD, very small and does 720p HD), but is nowhere near the resolution of "fullHD".

You would have to step up too an XHA1s, which is excellent and hi-resolution, but now you have a fairly large handycam style camcorder.

CMOS rules the consumer world these days... so your choices are really limited.
 
You are saying you are avoiding the idea of CMOS because of rolling shutter issues. And you said that, "Half the time, the camera is mounted on a sports car and the vibration is simply making some of the footage unusable for broadcast", and "the smaller the device is, the better."

I'm assuming you must have never heard of this:
GoPro - HD HERO

If you shoot outdoors in sunlight, they are absolutely PHENOMENAL!
 
Yes, I´m oredring this camera next month. It´s awesome ;) But it´s strictly a POV camera and not really for the job I have in mind for the CCD I´m looking for.
That means - the sound is unusable for speech (8kHz only), it has no zoom, it has no audio in etc.
We have the Sony POV camera, which I´ve mentioned here somewhere. Video quality is superb for a POV camera, much better than the Go PRO. But then again, it cost 3000 dollars.

I have a suspicion, that I´l probably end up with a CMOS camera in the end :D
 
TheReverend said:
You are saying you are avoiding the idea of CMOS because of rolling shutter issues. And you said that, "Half the time, the camera is mounted on a sports car and the vibration is simply making some of the footage unusable for broadcast", and "the smaller the device is, the better."

I'm assuming you must have never heard of this:
GoPro - HD HERO

If you shoot outdoors in sunlight, they are absolutely PHENOMENAL!
Click to expand...

That is absolutely bad ass, I love their demo reel!
 
Panasonic TZ10

Panasonic TZ10

I have a GoPro HD Hero (CMOS) and a Panasonic TZ10 (CCD) and I have used both a little bit for mountain biking video's. The CMOS sensor is actually quite bad for the jello effect, and it really surprised me that most (all?) the "sports POV" cameras are based on CMOS and have the rolling shutter issue. I can see that cost is the primary driver for that.
BUT...The panasonic TZ10 has a 1280x720 AVCHD video output from a CCD (which is crystal clear...way above the Gopro output IMO) and doesn't give the jello effect.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Panasonic/panasonic_dmczs7.asp

I can get this camera for <$300 (Australian dollars) which is amazingly cheap: http://www.topbuy.com.au/tbcart/pc/Panasonic-LUMIX-DMC-TZ10-Black-Digital-Camera-TZ10-p33412.htm

It has Image stabilisation and it handles mountain bike video well BUT I haven't even been game to subject the camera to severe vibration (such as mounted to the handlebars)...I've hand held the camera so it doesn't get bashed around...but the one-handed mountain biking issues are, um, very dangerous to say the least. I paid a LOT more for this camera than $300 so I'm not willing to damage it, hence the Gopro, but in terms of image clarity and CCD-non-rolling-shutter usefullness I am seriously thinking about giving it a better workout. Inside a race car this camera might be really good.

Anyway...Does the Panasonic TZ10 match your criteria? HD (720p), cheap, CCD? The focusing ring isn't a feature though and I find the camera too automatic for my liking (I'm more of a SLR user) so it doesn't fully fit the bill, but it's not a bad option? It does have a (very expensive) waterproof housing available if outside movies are required.

I'm interested in your comments because I'm seriously thinking about using the Gopro harnesses to mount my Panasonic TZ10...things like the chest mount or helmet mount might be fine.
Regards,
Tony
 
I think the JVC GY-HM100E is the best choice for size and quality. The Gopro and many other such gadgets are 30p! That bites you when you need broadcast 50i...I am desperately waiting for CCD PAL chips in 16:9 since 1 year and all we got so far is cmos 30p with fake HD and lousy compression. If you can wait, something might come but count more than 6 months.
 
Barry_Green said:
It's almost easier to just name off what CCD camcorders are left on the market, and let you decide if you think they're sharp enough.

1/2":
Sony XDCAM-HD series
Click to expand...

It seems the smaller EX1 and 3 models are actually CMOS. (I'm really starting to hate that technology.)
 
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